Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 15:23 UTC

Re: Legal/illegal Drug policy  

It will be in everyone's best interest if recreational drugs (including alcohol) are made illegal.

I've read many insightful comments and ideas in this thread, but I find one thing to be missing from the arguments I've read; the fact that prohibiting a substance in a place where it has never preciously been available, is very different from prohibiting the same substance in a place where it's already available (legally or not).

On Earth it's relatively easy to grow large amounts of marijuana, or produce large amounts of alcohol, which is one reason why they can be so easily acquired on the black market. That won't be the case in Asgardia, so there won't be the same problem of people acquiring drugs and alcohol from an unrepeatable source, should they be made illegal. Smuggling is still something that could happen, but considering the very restricted amounts of cargo that can (at least at this time) be transported in to space at one time, the amount of goods that could slip though customs (or whatever you want to call it) will be minimal. Here on Earth you could, and it is done, smuggle several kilos of cocaine or pot into any country. On a space cargo ship, even 100gm of a drug, or one small bottle of alcohol would be noticeable. Some might still slip though, but it's going to be much more manageable than the effects of unrestricted access to alcohol and other recreational drugs.

I love wine, and if moving to a space station I would like to be able to have a glass of wine from time to time. However, most of all I want to be safe. Knowing what we know of humans' lack of responsibility and consideration for others, and how we constantly abuse both legal and illegal drugs (not only alcoholics and addicts), my vote will still be for the ban of all recreational drugs/substances. The risks of the potential damages caused by one person abusing alcohol or drugs, so very greatly outweighs the gains for people using it responsibly. Secondly, there are an ever increasing market for non-alcoholic beverages so, if like me, a person would miss the taste of alcoholic drinks there are options. Options that don't include the possibility of a person becoming intoxicated and in that state causing damage that could be life-threatening to everyone on the space station.

Living in space (at least at this point and the foreseeable future) will not be like living on Earth. What we can eat and drink, and what forms of recreation will be available to us, and how often we can engage in these activities will be different from how it is on Earth. Life in space won't entail as many choices as life on Earth does. If a person is not ready to give up a lot of the comforts and luxuries, as well as basic things we take for granted on Earth (i.e. showering as often and as long as you want), for the excitement of space explorations and research - the chance to experience a different way of life - then perhaps it might be better for such a person to serve Asgardia through a job posting on Earth. When Asgardia's space station becomes a reality, initially, most of Asgardia's citizens won't be able to go there anyway. There won't be enough room. It would be in Asgardia's best interest to send those who value the work that can be done at this station, over the consumption/use of recreational drugs (including alcohol) to live on the space station, and leave those who feel that recreational drugs are something they must have in their lives to carry out job positions on Earth.

Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 16:14 UTC

OOoh! An honest chance for debate! AWESOME!

I wholeheartedly disagree and would say we should do the opposite, legalize everything and make certain that everything is properly identified and made as clean and pure as possible for consumption.

Humans are exceptionally adaptable creatures. If you deny them something they desire, they will find other ways of getting it, with increased measures of danger depending on their desire to obtain it. Thus, if a person desires a self-destructive or recreational chemical, they will go to great lengths (even to the danger of other citizens) to obtain it.

While your desired outcome is commendable, I believe the method is somewhat shortsighted. You cannot stop people from wanting, but you can make certain that when they get what they want, that they do the least amount of damage to both themselves and others. Those desiring to 'kick the habit' can voluntarily engage in rehabilitation, which would include the inability to 'purchase' (or however our economy will work) any recreational chemicals during the duration of their rehabilitation. If they self-destruct (i.e. die) due to their reliance on a given chemical, we shall mourn our loss and learn better from it.


Disclaimer: I have never done any form of recreational pharmaceutical (and will not, because I like my mind unfettered), legal or illegal. I do not smoke tobacco or drink alcohol (and will not, because it tastes awful). I believe that doing drugs in any form is foolish, unless specifically directed to by a licensed physician.

Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 17:24 UTC

The difficulty in getting illegal drugs onto Asgardia or manufacturing there without being detected is just going to create the most expensive and dangerous black market drugs in history.

Like Phicksur said, when you ban, you lose the ability to regulate and incentivize criminal activity, which multiplies far beyond the simple crime of illicit drug use. Reducing drug use is commendable, so if we are to be sincere in the goal we should be earnest in the effort. Otherwise it's just making people's lives worse so that the rest of us can feel like we accomplished something.

  Last edited by:  Michael Hoselton (Asgardian)  on Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 17:25 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 17:39 UTC

It is horribly easy to make alcohol from normal food. https://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/how-to-make-prison-wine-how-to-make-pruno

Drugs are easily produced from cleaning chemicals, legal medicines, and many school supplies (sniffin' glue!). (links will not be provided, but they are out there)

You cannot stop the sources of drugs or alcohol, so your best bet is to make certain that what reaches human consumption won't kill the foolish individual who decides to partake of them. As a result drugs must be cheap, clean, and heavily monitored, even for those drugs normally prescribed by a doctor.


The stigma relating to drug use would also need to be removed. Otherwise, people will not self-report when they are mentally impaired, possibly resulting in catastrophic results in a controlled, space station environment. Who wants to be the first to say that the guy in charge of oxygen control to the daycare didn't report he was high and, as a result, reduced the oxygen content down to the point he accidentally asphyxiated a bunch of toddlers?

People make stupid choices ALL THE TIME. They also make some brilliant choices... rarely. It is best to make certain that both ends are allowed, but their results mitigated if it turned out to be horrible.

Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 17:47 UTC

Drugs are easily produced from

Biological waste... Not something I'd personally consider, but I've heard things... And it's pretty difficult to seperate someone from the waste they naturally generate.

You're not stopping it, and attempts to will only make it worse. As suggested above, removal of the stigmata and acceptence combined with both somewhere to do such things along with medical and psychological support when required and as many "better options" to select as possible should serve to minimise the requirement for recreational uses.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 01:02 UTC

Ths is a great topic.

I agree with those who say drugs should be legal. After all, some substances our law calls "drugs" are used as "sacraments" in some religions.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 20:33 UTC

I believe anyone is free to use drugs as they please as it is their body.

P.D. Don't do drugs, kids.

Tau 05, 01 / Mar 30, 17 07:41 UTC

The legalization of drugs is the smartest route when it comes to the drug debate. In the United States we've had many drugs outlawed for a great many years and the ban hasn't had the desirable effect. In fact; drugs are more readily available today then they were in any other period of our history. You can even buy illicit drugs online now, thus in my opinion it's a lost cause.

We must allow the people to decide what is best for them; let them learn from their own decisions and actions. We do people a disservice when we block their right to learn from their actions.

The solution to the drug epidemic is to increase the quality of life and to provide a safe, loving and purposeful environment. If your able to provide this then the chance of them using any kind of drug will be low.

A open and free society respects the right for every individual to choose what they wish to do with their life. We should be accepting of others regardless of their habits. If we start acting like the current governments in control of this world; what makes us any better? Why should we apply universal bans? Cant we allow the communities to make their own decisions? Let the smaller communities in the nation decide on what they want their policy about drugs to be. If you don't like their policy; you can then relocate to another community that shares your beliefs.

If we start banning things from a nation level; it will only snowball out of control. Also consider this; violent tv shows and movies may be just as detrimental as drugs, maybe even more. When we watch violents shows and movies we're doing more then just being "Entertained"; we're promoting the paradigm of war, violence and death. Should we outlaw movies then? What about negative thinking? Should we outlaw that as well?

All these things can be addressed in the local communities; this nation should empower the smallest communities. Unlike the United States where most the power resides in the Federal; I would love to see a nation where the most of the power resides in the counties and towns. It should be the people in the community/county that decide what laws should be enforced.

  Last edited by:  Timothy Frappier (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Tau 05, 01 / Mar 30, 17 07:43 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Misspelled word

Tau 05, 01 / Mar 30, 17 16:11 UTC

@Frappy 👍

Gem 05, 01 / Apr 27, 17 23:36 UTC

In general, I don't care about drugs with the following exceptions :
1. drugs that also affect others (smoking whatever stuff in a closed enviroment is a no go)
2. drugs that makes you lose every shred of self control (controlled doses might be a solution)
3. operating anything vital under the influence

Personally, I have had bad experiences with drug users ranging from child abuse, petty theft to assault, so I'm quite biased.

Gem 06, 01 / Apr 28, 17 16:52 UTC

What about caffeine??

Gem 08, 01 / Apr 30, 17 19:53 UTC

I agree with those who say that the legalization of drugs is a better choice than banning them. A ban on something only makes the banned item more desirable and profitable to sell. Furthermore, many drugs have medical uses like marijuana for example. It can help with glaucoma, epilepsy which I myself have had for over two decades, and other problems I am not aware of. Also, because it is a naturally occuring substance it would be safer to use than any man made drug meant to control seizures and I should have the option of switching to it's use if I choose to. Which I am currently considering as I hate taking phenytoin and risking being affected by all the nasty side effects! Something I would not be able to do where Asgardia a reality and marijuana banned in that nation. Besides, no amount of interference from anyone can stop a user from using if he/she is not ready to. So, the choice should be left up to the individual after they have been adequately informed of the risks involved

  Updated  on Gem 08, 01 / Apr 30, 17 20:12 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Gem 11, 01 / May 3, 17 13:13 UTC

Basically, I agree with Vosla.

In general, I don't care about drugs. Exceptions:
1. drugs that could also affect others (direct or indirectly).
2. drugs that could make you lose self control.
3. operating anything under the influence.

Gem 11, 01 / May 3, 17 16:46 UTC

>> 2. drugs that could make you lose self control.

Dude, there are a lot more things than drugs that can cause a person to lose self control.

Also, some people don't want to always be in control over themselves. They are normally very uptight and controlled and often look to outside stimulants or depressants to cause them to lose control, at least in part, for the sake of their own sanity.

PSL

Gem 11, 01 / May 3, 17 17:00 UTC

In response to energi2er :
Coffeine is also a drug and should be taken seriously when it comes to abuse. I'm not talking about drinking mocca but popping pills on a regular basis without medical need. Though generally spoken, coffeine will likely not be a public problem as such, it could be a serious personal health risk. In contrast to other opinions, I dislike the idea to not supervise medications or drugs in a healthy way. Everyone who wants drug use to be free of legal regulation DOES THINK that they have themselves and the use under control all the time. Nobody thinks he/she/it/whatever has a problem and voice it. Nobody becomes an alcoholic because of choice. There are people who are simply not fit to decide on that. But that's more of a medical problem to me. It only gets a police problem if some persons life is in peril without need.

In response to Phicksur :
I understand 'losing control' as going whole apesh*t and causing damage, injury and what's-not in this case. Excessive loss of control, not climbing up a palm tree and throwing bananas. Though you might be held responsible to clean up your mess afterwards.

  Last edited by:  Les Vosla (Translator, Asgardian)  on Gem 11, 01 / May 3, 17 17:12 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: Grammar and adds.