Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 19:18 UTC

Re: Service Based Economy  

Totally agree with the básico concepto,taxi must ve around 10 to 15%,the whealtj limitada ok, but 35℅ go to do R&D,rest to educativo and health,and sing me up for the económic team

Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 21:09 UTC

Btw we need some structure to base businnes snd portal trough Asgardia, so we can generate cashflow for our económic grow

  Last edited by:  Angel Martinez (Asgardian)  on Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 21:10 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 21:54 UTC

markjcooke - " I know I'm not adding inspiration here but I am disappointed at finding more of the same failed experiments already in progress".

I've never seen anyone propose what I have proposed (personal wealth limit), charity pot, service based economy. some people re-word the wording of the concept of a charity pot (splitting the surplus by the citizens then they get to vote where the funds re allocated) or about an SBE, and then they post on other threads, but I still haven't seen quite what I proposed here.

Not many things that have the potential to revolutionize the global Economy work first time..

Summa - I have sent in a few proposals and the details will definitely need tweaking :).

  Last edited by:  Lloyd Cox (Asgardian)  on Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 22:07 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 22:40 UTC

How would any of that not imply under a personal wealth limit?

"that is a TAX by another name" Economies (that use money) will not work unless Taxes are paid.

There is nowhere on the planet that enforces a personal wealth limit, you can call it what names you like but there is nowhere (that I have been able to find) that implements such a thing. If you can find a nation that implements one please share the link.

"That is also a TAX" Comission /Tax makes no odds, everyone has to contribute to society, if you can't pay with money, pay with time/services.

"I cannot agree to enforced capital limits on earnings nor 'required' donations to the State sponsored charity." You wouldn't like to have the chance to allocate a portion of your nations surplus, in local infrastructure projects that you can propose, such as locals schools, hospitals? You wouldn't like to have a little bit of control over some of your contributions?

"resources of the space nation might be subject to shared ownership " Agreed anyone who's venture is started/funded by Asgardian resources should belong to the people.

"In a community people will give and share the resources that they have when they have them and to those they feel truly need them" Similar to asking the super rich to help the super poor you mean? Kind of what my whole post is about?

"everyone knew who needed and more importantly, deserved and gave accordingly." I'd suggest re-reading the post. The whole post is about helping promote people/projects who need help and the citizens decide who deserved their allocation.

  Last edited by:  Lloyd Cox (Asgardian)  on Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 23:02 UTC, Total number of edits: 4 times

Jan 20, 17 / Aqu 20, 01 13:50 UTC

Hey! As a student Master of Economics, I would very much like to work with you on this plan. It is true that current labour is more and more replaced by robots, so a replacement of the standard 'income' is imminent. Yet, as pointed out by others, there are indeed flaws in the plan. How does one raise investment? How does the economy create value that can be exchanged with foreign countries? How do you solve the Intertemporal problem, i.e. create the possibility to postpone consumption to later periods? How do you solve the inflation problem (which will most definitely occur)? And more importantly: how do you solve the price mechanism? Giving all deeds a fixed amount of credits will limit the flexibility of the economy! Our current economies don't work "just because". There are fundamental structures.

To conclude: I would very much like to work with you on the specifics, so that all typical economic structures are resolved.

P.S. I have some background on behavioral economics, so that might come in handy to resolve this kind of 'social economy'.

Jan 20, 17 / Aqu 20, 01 21:05 UTC

Hi Petrus,

I would love to work with you on this project, I think a few others have said they would like to also, I am 100% for creating a team dedicated to creating a Service Based Proposal.

I won't claim to know the right answers to your questions, but I will give you my answers :).

How does one raise investment? - Crowd funding, sponsors (investment for what exactly?) How does the economy create value that can be exchanged with foreign countries? By the services offered by our citizens. Where other Economies have Gold/Petrol dollar etc, our Economy will be backed by the services it's people can offer. If you can offer the best services from around the world, it would be in the best interest of that Economy it's citizens where healthy, well educated, and have services to offer (personal development).

How do you solve the Intertemporal problem, i.e. create the possibility to postpone consumption to later periods? If there was ever a time where demand exceeded supply we would simply have to invest in the people to fulfill the demand.

How do you solve the inflation problem (which will most definitely occur)? A implementing a personal wealth limit. No Organisation or person can have more than (X) amount of credits/money/etc. By getting people to spend their excess wealth back in to the Economy (the charity pot bit) and not hoarding, inflation should be rather gradual and steady I would of thought. But I am not an Economist lol.

And more importantly: how do you solve the price mechanism? Giving all deeds a fixed amount of credits will limit the flexibility of the economy! By having fixed Tier hourly rates. We can have Tier 1 - (x) with the level representing the skill available and price incurred. A level one (Rookie) costs 5$ an hour a level 3 $10 etc. (this rates are just for demonstration) level (x) (doctor level) $100 an hour.

Again, I don't think these are the right answers, I hope if we all work together we might be able to find the right answers.

Jan 22, 17 / Aqu 22, 01 23:13 UTC

Hello, I would be interested in working on this project as well.
I recently graduated with my accounting degree, but I have also lived in three different countries with different economic structures; USA, Canada and Germany.

It is my personal beleif that once things are done and people are living in space that basics should be no question covered. that is food, water, air, medical and a place to live. People are going to be performing in a vastly different environment that we have now so monetary concerns should be off the table for that. however I also beleive that people will work above and beyond that for monetary goals. For instance, I work for my basics to be covered, but do extra to have additional perks. Either that or there is a set income for everyone so that basics can be covered. Of which is a huge concern in the USA now. The problem is you can get creative here to make ends meet, but that is not an option in space.

I also love that we are trying to work this out now so we can all participate at this point. A big selling point for raising money is proving that we can make it work before their eyes. And that we are trying to address it so that people who are not wealthy can participate equally. I think staritng with service based is a good idea, althought we need to flesh it out more. One of the big things I would like to see to avoid is inflation and stocks. They are complicated to say the least. but one of the biggest problems is that they can only grow. if they drop its a crisis. However things cannot only go up, this is how we get bubbles and that can be damaging. Thus if we are creating our own economic system, I would like to avoid inflation all together.

Jan 26, 17 / Aqu 26, 01 17:54 UTC

Thanks for all the feed back guys! Can I ask that any of you who wish to work together re-tweaking and to form a proposal to send to official ( everyone who works on the proposal will get credit, not just me, I am not like that).

Please can you add me on Discord (Lloyd #8873), there I will create a room to put us all together.

Really looking forward to what we can come up with for Asgardia.

Best wishes, Lloyd

Feb 6, 17 / Pis 09, 01 20:30 UTC

Lloyd, I sent you a request on Discord.

Mar 17, 17 / Ari 20, 01 18:19 UTC

I'm sorry I can't work for this project, as I've no skill in finance.
Not all bad, I've eyes to see and I've been in many places, last but not least, virtual ones, where "service based economy" is a reality nowadays (e.g. SecondLife).

We may work on internal currency (formerly points) for our internal needs but, if we'll wish to exchange goods/services with the actual "foreign" World's economies (and we'll have to) we should think to a "normal" currency, one with exchange rates with others (I wrote here about it).
All apart: speaking about points or speaking about Asgardian credits (or asgards), as soon as both can be used to buy goods/services or pay taxes, is basically the same.

I'm particularly in favor of a service based economy as I believe it will be our main income source in the mid term. For that we'll need, to start, a MarketPlace where people, as well as Asgardia, can advertise it's services, creating each one a vendor space where asgardians can browse and buy services or goods (for hints on how to build it: SecondLife's Marketplace).
Some kind of reputation system (like eBay's one) and customers' reviews should prevent bad business.
Foreign companies should be allowed not only in buying our services but even to advertise their own, paying commercial fees to establish their vendors and taxes on the business they'll have by means of our structures.

Argardia itself (formerly AIRC) may place it's servers aboard the satellite we'll launch, to extend the services "off Earth" and to manage our orbital business the same way some Nations 're doing nowadays on Earth.

This may be a starting point. From this point forward we'll have time to expand our business and to better rule it, I bet. ;-)

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 14:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: links revision

Mar 26, 17 / Tau 01, 01 00:24 UTC

This sounds fucking awsome :D

Apr 4, 17 / Tau 10, 01 08:40 UTC

As we are advancing in terms of constitutional and other managerial issues. Economics and financing issues will need urgent attendance. Can you please update, how is your work group progressing. 

  Last edited by:  Turan Timucin Can (Asgardian)  on Apr 4, 17 / Tau 10, 01 09:23 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Apr 4, 17 / Tau 10, 01 11:38 UTC

Elwe stated he has no skill in finance, so as far as I can tell this project doesn't exist. It was an idea.

I have a business background in finance and accounting, programming knowledge (helps when designing closed systems) and a whole crapton of other skills outside of it, so I would likely be a good fit to devise such a system. I am waiting on a Constitution to provide the outlines of law, so that a system can be built within it. No sense in designing an economic system that will eventually violate the law.


Apr 4, 17 / Tau 10, 01 14:36 UTC

As good @Phicksur stated, no project can exist outside a law which can rule it and make it "legal".
But "a project" is, as written, "a project": you can "project" a tool even if you are not meeting all legal requirements to "build" it.
The references I gave is of a MarketPlace which is operating under the laws which makes it legal: the SecondLife Terms of Services (and the international agreements of Linden Dollar to other currencies exchange). The goods shown there are "digital goods" as the reference world is a virtual one.

Nothing prevents us to project our own MarketPlace, both technically and legally, after our "references rules" (the Constitution) have been approved.
I personally believe that, at first time, our very first products will be in the "third sector": (digital) services. That far before we'll acquire the ability to work with our own industry or agriculture.

By the way, as historical record, even SL's MarketPlace was born as a (SL) user's project, with no way to make it alive. Then it have been proposed to Linden Labs (SL's owners) who bought it: at the moment, if I'm not wrong, there is nearly 1 million dollars' exchange a day, there (thus the danger of anti-money laundering too) as SL have still 40-60.000 online people a day, most of them using the MP.

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Apr 4, 17 / Tau 10, 01 14:37 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: grammar

Apr 4, 17 / Tau 10, 01 14:55 UTC

@ Elwe Thor want me to help? i am accountant and i will do Economy Science after a year or two , if you want you can pick the lead of the project and give you tips how to proceed i think that someone who have the idea is the person to lead the project haha , you can make the project and i will do the all i can to help with the economy/finance part it is not that hard to do this project since theres already some fundantion to the project (like the example of SL)