Is the primary purpose of the items in question to be a weapon? I mean I could spread butter on my toast using a Glock 17, but that is not the primary purpose of that item, is it?

Hi Branon,

But the hypothetical, as I framed it, had three choices:

1. To break a law by bringing a weapon to an Asgardia space habitat (satisfying what you believe to be your personal right), 

2. To comply with the law by not bringing a weapon to the Asgardia space habitat (satisfying the will of the people as a whole),

3. To stay on Earth and collect, keep and carry as many weapons as you are lawfully allowed.

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Hi thymeless,

Agreed. In fact I have received training in how to use some everyday items for personal defence. Almost anything can be used as a weapon - humans are kinda creative like that.

However,  you'll notice the key words I used were "primary purpose" which can be seperate from intent and objectively tested.

Can a katana carve a Christmas turkey? Sure. Is that its primary purpose. No. Can a AR5 be used to prop open a window. Absolutely. Was it built for that purpose? Again, no. The flip side is can a bread knife be used as a weapon? Absolutely. Is that its primary purpose? Well the fact that it is called a "bread knife" suggests not.

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I read all of the link you provided and there are two issues that I think more favours my argument over yours:

1. It primarilly related to the concealled carry of dirks and daggers. Things may be different where you are, but I do not know many instances where someone would carry around a concealled butter knife.

2. The main weakness identified is that proving the offence cited required evidence as to "state of mind" (ie. The person concerned must know the implement could be used as a stabbing impliment). Anyone involved in law enforcement knows this is nearly impossible to prove under the best of circumstances

Call me naieve, but I'd like to think that a judge can draw the difference between a dagger and a butter knife. Yes, I agree that awls are sharp and pointy, but in a paperless environment (like I think Asgardia would be) what is the purpose of owning one?

Brandon, I am aware I can upload a profile pic. As I have mentioned a couple of times, I'm involved in law enforcement. What I haven't mentioned is that I often deal with organised crime. I like to keep my online footprint to a minimum and given this forum can be viewed publically, that's not a great idea. I could upload an avatar picture. But what would that help?

I really can't believe your arrogance scarab, glock 16 to spread butter? That's is the most rediculouse anit gun form I have ever heard. We didn't suggest glocks we suggested non lethal Co2 weapons, and honestly if I'm allowed to bring a weapon then ill bring my smallest but weapons are to be confiscated well there are other ways. But pointed out any item can be used as a weapon people won't really think of that. Scarab do you focus on how many incidents and event were prevented from a armed civilian? Or do you just ignore that? Or even ignore we have stated non lethal weapons. We are to be eat the defense? We can't if we can't defend ourselves and if they ban weapons then how will we protect the earth? We can't. We can put defensive turrets outside meant for meteors. But if a intelligent threat was to happen we need them for more and we need to protect yourself correct? How will you? Yeah you had training but what if they have a home made weapon? As stated made of spare parts which many parts of a space station could be made for killing when you least expect it. So tell me you really arrogant to leave us in a position to die? Because you feel any sorta weapon is for killing even non lethal? I've seen that any "weapon" means gun to you and I've read your post, I'm not joking we want non lethal weapons and you seem to hear we want shotguns, when we have stated we want Co2 tight chamber guns that fire tranc darts. So how will we fight back if they have a range weapon and we have no weapon of any sort? I'm no genius but look at everything that can happen. Us Americans that we were safe then 9/11, suicide bombing, and terrorist gunman. Is that America's fault? No. Those of us who do allow weapons see what can happen. The bad and good. So tell me all the great things that happen when we are attacked? None for sure. I'm willing to just have a baton and some areas weapon restricted, but no people like you are selfish and arrogant. Look at the good of being armed does. It can prevent us from losing lives and stop these horrible events. Do you know how many crimes and certain events are stopped by armed citizens?

Brandon, I've just read your updated post and again, I have to respectfully disagree with your position.

In a democratic state, the enacted laws are the will of the people. We vote for politicians to represent us and politicians vote on our behalf to enact laws. At that point, the will of the people become the rule of law. All citizens then have the obligation to comply with these laws otherwise they will face the legal consequences.

Sorry Boonejohn97, I stopped convesing with you after you continually got (and still do get) my handle wrong, demonstrated that you can't be civil and... oh that's right banged on about some tin foil hat conspiracy theory about the moon being nuked.

If you mature a bit, I might consider re-engaging with you in the future. Until then, enjoy your one way venting of rage from whatever issue it is you are experiencing.

PS - Swap out Glock 17 with handheald taser (or any other sub-leathal device) in my former example. The point is still the same.

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@Scarbs,

Actually, I have no obligation to mind any law, whether I do or not is entirely up to me. No one can force me to comply with any law, they can only react after the fact should I choose to disregard any given law. I just choose to engage in behaviour that is considered as law abiding. Because many laws are against things I would not do under normal circumstances. Laws are only suggestions for the way people should behave. They are not absolute and by themselves are completely powerless! You misunderstood my reason for asking if one can upload a pic to the forum. I was asking because I was considering uploading a pic of one of my swords. I would not request that you do something that may cause you trouble or endanger you in anyway. I haven't that right, well outside of requests that would require you to perform your duties as an officer of the law that is. Which I do not think will ever happen as I am certain we live in different areas of the world or country should you be American.

"All citizens then have the obligation to comply with these laws otherwise they will face the legal consequences."

True, I can disregard parking laws. No one is making me comply with those laws, but if I break them willingly and knowingly, I do so knowing the consequence of my actions and accepting those consequences should I get caught. This is why I proposed my hypothetical: What is more important to you - the ability to defend yourself with a weapon and accepting any legal consequences that may come with that or your willingness to comply with the law and forgo what you see as your personal right to carry a weapon for defense.

As for uploading pics, I have seen other posters do it but I have no idea how. 

Okay 1 scarab it's actually been for testing the nukes instead of damaging our planet, and defense and listen to yourself, I'm very mature for my age, but honestly why should I show maturity to someone who doesn't get my handle because he has his head far up his butt of his own perfect society, I can be civil but not with someone arrogant as you. I looked some info, looks like other than the ideas of weapons there was no need for a debate. They are considering letting us carry certain weapons as civilian carry. Now tell me scarab how have you not also been immature?You seem to clearly not get anything me and Brandon get when it comes to our defense. Yeah a piece of mind isn't much but we know something will always be ready to happen eventually and we want to ensure safety. If you can't wrap that around you small mind, then leave this forum. We have stated many times non lethal, certain weapons, test, laws, action, training, and handling. And like Brandon the law doesn't have a grip on me because they want to, I'd be willing to break a law to ensure my safety. If you gotta a problem with us wanting to make sure if we get surprised and are ready. There's a door you can leave through.  The code for this is GRR :D

Thymeless, do you mean the Boker Plus Urban Trapper? The one where the manufacturer's own website describes the Boker Plus range as follows:

"In close cooperation with internationally acknowledged experts from military, police and security we develop and test tactical knives for the professional user."

It doesn't sound like the primary purpose of that range of knives is as a kitchen knife or of a utility tool used by tradespeople does it?

Honestly you wanna talk crazy, look at half of the conspiracys in the world. Back to main subject. A personal carry is allowed in many countries and places, when for a fact has it not been a help to many people? Does it not make someone feel safe knowing someone with a personal carry is in the room? This doesn't just mean guns. I honestly think we need to be strict with our weapons. Test and check ups should be ensured to keep everyone safe and for a fact a hand held weapon is the least of our issues, when people can release has into vents and rooms with bio and chemical weapons. I really wish you would stop thinking only bad comes from weapons and look at the good, you don't have to agree to personal carry, but at least admit there is some good. Now scarab wanna be civil? Okay so tell me what would you do if a group of assailants just got aboard armed and took over our bridge area and on their Way there they injured many. Would you be civil about them attacking? I wouldn't. And with fellow asgardians I'm willing to talk anything over, but I will not let myself be defenseless when i shouldn't or need to be ready. May I ask why you only see bad in self defense non lethal weapons?