Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 02:46 UTC

Re: Discussion for the Constitution Table of Contents  

I just wonder a little on something, if by the Declaration we are assuring politics is not part of our way of living in Asgardia; then how to explain the Parlament and some other of the government structures? That seems to me to be politics, isn't it?

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 03:27 UTC

i'm so happy:) everything is in good conditions. no issues and we are getting stronger as a Asgardians(:

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 03:52 UTC

that's great ! I can't wait the nation born!

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 04:55 UTC

Seems good so far, I can't really criticize anything until the full costitution is provided

  Last edited by:  Matteo Peron (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 04:56 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 06:14 UTC

To All Asgardians Brothers & The Founding Father Igor Ashulbeily

Hello

I think that as constitution it should start by defining the type of government/state with will be founded since depending on this topic it will define the way to walk throught. I think that as we all are people from diferent countries, we should take the best topics from our countries constitutions and create the Best constitution that should be the model to fallow for all the countries in the world. There is no way to have a proffesional and accurate opinion about this draft if we do not know anything about Law and constitution, then I think we should compare our countries constitutions and propose the best topics for the Asgardia. Please everyone, before to you make an opinion about how nice the Asgardia constitution look like, please think about the next notions. Type of governament, State of law, Propose experienced people, Key Words in the Coustitution to be detailed: Private Property status, The State Powers organization, Details to keep separate the State powers, Election System, sovereignty, Human Rights, etc

But I think the founding Father before start the Constitution draft it should organize the Asgardia population maybe by people with someting in common and from those cells of people it should rise leader by democracy election with the skills to think those constitution topics and explain to the people why each step and how to participate and colaborate.

After the people get organized, the next step is propose the type of Politic government we want, Personally I believe in a system with repect for the private property in a law state with emphasis in what the people need to be success.

As you see, each topic of few are enought to have a discution one by one, then I think we most have to think develop a system to create the best Counstitution Draft.

Thanks

PD Please dismiss my bad english and focus in the Idea.

  Last edited by:  Edwin Lopez (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 06:24 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Add a note P.D.

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 07:07 UTC

I think that would be very sensible, edenlop. This a historic moment and a make it or break it one for Asgardia. We should do it right.

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 07:25 UTC

Very nice Preamble,But i have some points to add:- Chapter IV. Democracy and Social Justice there should be 1:-Article on FRATERNITY: This refers to a feeling of brotherhood & a sense of belonging with the country among its people. It embraces psychological as well as territorial dimensions of National Integration. It leaves no room for regionalism, Communism, caste-ism etc. which hinders the Unity of the State. 2:-Article on EQUITY: the quality of being fair and impartial. 3:-Article on SOVEREIGNTY: It means free from the control of any foreign power and internally has a free government which is directly elected by the people and makes laws that govern the people. She allies in peace and war. The Popular sovereignty should be one of the basic structures of constitution of Asgardia. Hence, Citizens of Asgardia also enjoy sovereign power to elect their representatives through elections held for the parliament, state legislature and local bodies as well. People have supreme right to make decisions on internal as well as external matters. No external power can dictate the government of Asgardia. Asgardia’s membership of the commonwealth or of the United Nations does not impose any external limit on It's sovereignty. 4:-Article on LIBERTY: The idea of Liberty refers to the freedom on the activities of ASGARDIA nationals. This establishes that there are no unreasonable restrictions on ASGARDIA citizens in term of what they think, their manner of expressions and the way they wish to follow up their thoughts in action. This is found to be an important tool in ensuring democratic framework. However, liberty does not mean freedom to do anything, and it must be exercised within the constitutional limits.this is second provision.Hope it will help in forming our Constitution.Thank YOU!

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 07:38 UTC

For now seems pretty good! Let's see when the articles are developed

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 08:21 UTC

Dear Asgardians,

As a framework for our constitution, table of contents seems comprehensive and efficient to start with.

I believe in common responsibilities rather than obligations, obligation is a very strong word which should be reciprocated by both parties in the same manner. Citizens and the state should have responsibilities rather than obligations.

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 09:29 UTC

The contents seems pretty good, although I notice a lack of computational resources (in referance to artificial intelligence, asgardian informational servers, etc...) and the rights of machine citizens.

Yes, I am aware that machine based citizens are some time away, I am merely inquiring as to the nature of such when (and if) they become a thing.

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:00 UTC

Hello to all,

As noted previously by other asgardians, it is difficult to get a real idea of the quality of the future constitution on the table of contents alone. However, I believe the place of science in our gouvernment should be put forward in this table.

I would love to see an article about a Science cabinet or council in "Chapter VII: Administration of Government". This would put Science as a primary body of government, at the same level as the judiciary or parliament. This would differentiate us as a nation build not on the three "traditionnal" powers (legislative, executive, judiciary) but on four: legislative, executive, judiciary and science.

I would also look forward to an article about the separation of powers (whether there are three or four) in our democracy.

  Last edited by:  Caroline Blanc (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:01 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:20 UTC

I agree with @LeonGower here. Considering that we expect this document to live for a long time, we should consider that not all Citizens will be Human. At some point, we may recognize other sentient beings. I don't advocate to recognize computers or AIs... But the question is why do we require an article on "Human Resources?" If absolutely required, then we could, as LeonGower suggests, call it Intelligence, Sentient or Citizen Resources...

By: LeonGower(Asgardian) on 30 March 2017, 3:26 p.m.

Article 11. Human Resources Needs to be Article 11. Intelligence

Human Resources is newspeak and looked upon by many with a negative light. Read the words, Humans as a Resource, it's the manipulation of people and should not be a fixed long term element of any government constitution. Human Resource is also a buzz word, a fad, it may be a popular notion for a few decades or even a hundred years but it's certainly not going to be popular long term. Eventually Asgardians will see HR as an archaic control of people. I'll provide a link to an article that may help with understanding. http://www.cpiworld.com/knowledge-center/blog/are-hr-departments-becoming-obsolete-what-hr-professionals-need-to-know Intelligence is a more flexible long term concept that can handle the current daily functions of a Human Resources Department but without the negative overview. It is reasonable for a country to list Intelligence under Resources, it's not reasonable to list Humans under Resources

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:51 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: fixed formatting

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:25 UTC

Regarding Article 23: Protection of Earth

Must this be defined in the Constitution?? We already have Article 22: National Security... We can be an ally of Earth nations or even the whole planet if all could agree. But, I really don't see the necessity of writing this into the Constitution. Having this article in the Constitution would effectively chain our nation to it's roots when we should all be out progressing among the stars!

Besides, we have Article 24: Security Services and Systems We can roll the defence of Earth into this article, if we must, as a service we can provide.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:54 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: further details.

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:47 UTC

Regarding Article 32: Parliament

I don't recall an agreed discussion on the form and type of government we are to establish. Clearly Article 16: Democracy suggest it will be a democratic government of some type. Having read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forms_of_government and seeing other types, I find myself in favor of a Confederated Democratic Technocracy.

It should be confederated as we will quickly become stretched far and wide among the stars. This means some "states" (perhaps planets, asteroids or other bodies capable of sustaining a large group of Citizens) will need some autonomy to operate until communications become reasonably quick. Of course, we desire the people's participation, therefore we are democratic. I like the concept of Technocracy where we would choose experts to the office of their charge. I would not want an oil businessman suddenly elected to the Office of the Natural Resources when such person most likely does not have the Environment's concern at heart. There must be some criterion whereby a candidate qualifies for the Office!

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 12:48 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 13:12 UTC

Article 9: Key Obligations of Citizens

Despite not having the contents of this article, I already object to the word obligations. This is not only a strong word, but demands all Citizenry follow without fail.

It should be defined as responsibility or maybe duty but not an obligation. Duty is less severe than obligation, but hints at an ethical requirement. Responsibility (as a social responsibility) means that all should act for the benefit of society at large.