Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 08:25 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Declaration of Unity  

Dear Asgadians, "The Declaration of Unity" is comply with the concept of Asgardia. Concept was the frame work as put forward and we all compel. Declaration will be the very foundation which we will elect. And in a very democratic way brought to our review well in advance

In life, every step we take, every decision we make is politics, not necessarily in the context of established political norms or organized political movements. The very same approach will definitely be true for the future of Asgardia as we simply can not change the human nature. But, I fully support the the banning/limiting clause of political parties and political activities in Asgardia, let us satisfy this need in the usual manner in our earthy everyday life on earth.

As far as disclaiming Earthly history (clause 12), there the intent happened to be victim of wording again disregarding the fact how it is going to be interpreted. There, two different entities must be separated to better understand the intent. Asgardia entity as a new nation and Asgardians. Of course Asgardia as a new nation will not have history to inherit. But Asgardians we will have definitely have our past, by this declaration I understand we will be expected to carry our worthy experience for the well being of Asgardia not our past differences.

Overall, the declaration is in line with the concept but to avoid certain misinterpretations, wording of certain clauses ( 9 - 12 in particular ) needed amendments to avoid future concerns.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 09:03 UTC

@floydkelly - i understand where you are going and you have some great thoughts.

It might be wise to look into "international laws" before we agree to them. A notable item is "international space laws" which are self regulated by the signatories to the UN space treaty. Worth a read some time to understand what I mean. Perhaps these need to be redefined for a space nation.

Remember this is only a statement of principle that we can agree on to show unity of intention and goals as a nation. I suppose it is like a rallying point for our motivations.

I would guess the reason agreement with this declaration is a lineal step toward full Asgardian citizenship (see voting procedures attached to Decree 3) is because it outlines the principles and motivation for the Asgardian ideal society. If a person does not agree with this set of principles then they are unlikely to agree with the codification of a constitution or legislation.

It seems to me there is no need to cover all the details just the broad principles.
I would think that generally the details of interaction are generally codified in the constitution and the minutiae of daily interactions are held in legislative documents.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 09:10 UTC

Off the subject but has anyone else noticed the timeframe on this server.

if it is using UTC then it has to be in greenland, iceland or the very west coast of africa

no big deal but would be super cool and a little ironic to think we are using a server near the doomsday bank :-D

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 09:18 UTC

It's in Germany.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 09:41 UTC

Totally agree!!! When will be possible to see the candidates for ministerial positions?

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 09:54 UTC

@Eyre & @Rainbow - totally off the topic but good fun :-D

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 10:18 UTC

I think the declaration needs to tighten its restraints on religion. For example, rather than saying "Asgardia is a country of free spirit, science and internationalism. At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice any religion on Earth," can it not say the same but be tweaked slightly to have a more restrained nuance? For example: "At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice religion on Earth, so long as the religion in question does not bring harm to others. Furthermore, Asgardians are discouraged from following religions of which contradict Asgardian ideals." I think although harsh, it's necessary to discourage - not outlaw, mind you - blind religion that goes against overwhelming scientific proof (I.e, believing the world flooded and was repopulated by one man, his family, and two of every animal). Furthermore, I think including the term "any" makes people feel a bit too entitled. While both mean the same thing, it has a less limitless approach, as there are - of course - limits. Also, the inclusion of not bringing harm to others would be important in weeding out extremism. Now my views are quite strong, and in fact I've watered them down to be a bit more fair and politically correct, however I hope at least some of this is considered, especially the exclusion of religions of which bring harm to others (sacrificial religions, cult religions, extremism, exclusive/supremacist religions, etc.). Like many others, I am quite confused in regards to point 12. What does this mean, and is it necessary? If we forget our history surely we forget the lessons we've learned also. I would also like a bit more elaboration on point 9. What government will we have? Could we have a technocracy? I think that would be fitting.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 10:27 UTC

I agree with Xaphyr on his points. The wording definitely needs to be tightened.

Xaphyr, I encourage you to participate in the discussion and suggestions put forth on the Constitution. https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/constitution-132/topic/working-thread-compilation-of-community-suggestions-for-the-asgardia-constituion-2993/?page=1

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 11:48 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 12:07 UTC

Maybe we need to extend this point: The religious extremism and the denial of the science are not allowed in Asgardia.

  Updated  on Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 12:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 12:19 UTC

Maybe we need to extend this point: The religious extremism and the denial of the science are not allowed in Asgardia.

Now comes the rub.

Define your terms in a way that do not infringe on religious liberties or personal responsibility.

Religious Extremism
Denial of Science

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 13:00 UTC

Good start and like many already I'm slightly a bit confused/concerned about some of the wording but nothing too extreme. My thoughts follow on each of the Articles, but be advised I'm not a legal mind, just a regular man. I will add my interpretation in brackets for easier reading./ Article 1: Asgardia is a free and unified space state. (I personally would prefer it read : Asgardia is a space nation based on a Unified Humanity and Personal Freedoms.)
Article 2: the objectives of Asgardia are to: • ensure peace in space (nothing worth changing here unless you want to include how this is to be achieved?) • ensure the protection of planet Earth and the entire humankind from outer space threats; (maybe to include Human based space threats and not limited to Aliens or asteroids etc) • ensure equal opportunities in space for all Asgardians living on Earth, regardless of geographic, financial, technological and other features of the countries of their earthly citizenship./

  1. Any citizen of Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia, if he concurs with this Declaration, accepts the Future Constitution and legislation of Asgardia. (He should be changed to "They" to include the feminine otherwise someone may complain, and maybe in the future "They" could included other sexual genders/non genders as apparently they are becoming more popular these days)./4. All citizens of Asgardia are equal, regardless of their country of origin, residence, citizenship, race, nation, gender, language, or financial standing. ( I agree Sexual orientation should be included but maybe it should also include Earth Based 'Class' to remove the current Royalty/Lordships/Gentry barriers)./
  2. Asgardia respects the laws of the states on Earth and the international agreements and wishes to be recognized as equal country among other states on Earth.

  3. Asgardia does not interfere in the affairs of the states on Earth on the principle of reciprocity.

  4. Asgardia takes part in events on Earth at an international level, like any other country, based on its membership in respective international organizations (nothing wrong with these ones)./ 8. Asgardia respects the rights of citizens of Earth states, and protects the rights of its own citizens when it comes to their exclusive rights as citizens of the Space State. (Will need clarification as rights in one state is different from another and with citizens having dual nationality we don't want to infringe on nation states citizens rights or impose ours on said states, i:e, to prevent criminal acts and judicial sentences being prevented by someone claiming dual nationality?)./

  5. Asgardia does not engage in politics, there is no place for political parties in Asgardia. But every Asgardian can freely participate in political life on Earth. (I agree Asgardia should have no political parties but there should be in place a system to prevent dictatorships or corruption of positions of power (maybe a popularity/results based election system?))./
  6. Asgardia mirrors the Earth, but it does not reflect the Earth’s borders. At the same time, in the framework of earthly law every Asgardian can freely live within the borders of any earthly country (nothing wrong with this Article)./
  7. Asgardia is a country of free spirit, science and internationalism. At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice any religion on Earth. (maybe additional text to include that anyone practising religion of any form will not try to enforce/coerce/ threaten said religions on others against their will or disrupt practitioners of other religions.)./
  8. There is no place for Earth history in Asgardia. Asgardia creates a new history of the future of the humankind. (We should have a history of sorts otherwise we will be doomed to make the same mistakes again, maybe include it as to a precursor as to why Asgardia was formed in the first place?). That's my, my brain aches now.
  Last edited by:  Hadden Bramham (Asgardian)  on Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 16:55 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 13:11 UTC

@HaddenB : Can you please add formatting to your post? It's really hard to read.

Also, here is the forum formatting guide: https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/welcome-127/topic/formatting-guide-56/

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 13:12 UTC

I feel that the objectives of Asgardia (point no. 2) should also include "for the furtherance of science and development of scientific temper within the human species.".

Also, point no. 12 is ambiguous and the implications need to be explained properly.

Other than these, I have no issue with the Declaration. Concise and succinct.

I apologise for any redundancy created by bringing forth my suggestions.

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 13:19 UTC

@LoreZyra - it's not possible to post on that link anymore so I cant post there however, for everyone's info the editor responds pretty well to HTML coding as well.
That might make it easier for anyone who is interested

Tau 04, 01 / Mar 29, 17 13:26 UTC

Thank you for the clarification and your thoughts Yovi... I completely agree... the document should be clear unambiguous.