Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 07:39 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Second draft Constitution  

I agree with @Protean, 

I was disgusted to find LoreZyras candidate letter and find he is a member of the asgardia staff,  how easily he has turned his back on his colleagues or has he just stabbed them in the back?  By creating misleading posts like this in everycorner of the forum.  I also want to know where his opinion is better than that of a team of legal advisors.  I found his online resume and see nowhere his legal experience ([Link Removed at request of owner]).  Seems more like a lego hobbyist wanting to run his own lego empire. 

I think if he really is a member of staff he has already broken his campaign promises of standing up for people as he has already proven that his own ambition is bigger than his responsibility to his colleagues. 

In the most I agree with the admin decisions on this site, but I do see problems with the constitution and would like answers on how they are going to be solved, but this is not the way to go about doing so.   

and is it me or do you have a little rebel army following you around in every corner backing you up and bullying anyone who disagrees with you or your proposals.  Should this be added to your draft that the head of state (you) be given a private army to silence anyone who disagrees.  

and you talk of North Korea,

Admin Edit: The Link to the personal website has been removed at request of the site copyright owner - Jason Rainbow 1 August 2017 @ 09:22 UTC

  Last edited by:  Jason Rainbow (Global Admin, Global Mod, Asgardian)  on Vir 17, 01 / Aug 1, 17 09:22 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Removal of Link

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 07:40 UTC

@Protean(Asgardian) on 19 June 2017, 7:11 a.m.

It seems you've put this poll up trying to get people to respond in a certain way by asking whether they agree 100%  . It would be very difficult to find any person that would agree with any constitution 100%.
The fact that you've put 'mostly' as a possibility is irrelevant since you asked a leading question and then put your preferred response as the first option.
It's clear from your post history that you dislike the constitution and want to see it changed.

Initially, I setup this poll as a binary response. However, I observed some people did not take as much issue as a few Asgardians here have... I was curious to see how many were "mostly" (more than 90%) agreeing with it. According to the poll, 3/68 (as of the time of this post) selected they agree 100%... So, it doesn't seem so hard as you are proclaiming. I will not pretend to understand these 3 users' rationale for agreeing full-heartedly. It is difficult for me to imagine people reading this 2nd Draft and believing it to build a better world than their own reality. I'm not sure I can make my position any more clear than I already have... but yes, I definitely want to see many changes as the current document is 100% unacceptable.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 10:18 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times
Reason: correcting grammar

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 07:53 UTC

Firstly, why are there so many semi-illiterate wannabe leaders with no experience or credentials to back themselves up flocking to the forums? Even if some of you were granted leadership positions in the new space nation (which I find highly unlikely), no one would follow you. Secondly, why are you all complaining about the constitution and acting like you can actually amend it now? You can either vote yes, or abstain, future changes will most likely be done through a referendum.

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:04 UTC

@Buck Rogers
So you also seems seeing the "two parts on a barricade" scheme? One side the Staff, the other side we, the people of Asgardia, fighting each other?
It's a very sad and poor view, seems to me.
As far as I can see, @LoreZyra helped the Staff at least as much he helped asgardians, trying to make a "better Constitutional draft" for all and not for himself. But having not enough, and despite 90% of his (and our) work have been "simply trashed", he decided to accept this unwanted Constitution so to candidate and help Asgardia at the whole (so asgardians, but even the Staff) more.
I don't know what you did, maybe behind your nick is hiding Dr. Ram Jahku himself, or any other official, but I wish to see you doing at least the same as I saw @LoreZyra did. That said for the benefit of all Asgardia and yourself too.

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:13 UTC

Look out, army of rebels incoming...

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:19 UTC

@Elwe: when you say "and despite 90% of his (and our) work have been "simply trashed"' - you do realise why that is right? Its because the constitution was presented to us to vote on, they didn't ask or invite anyone to amend it.

  Last edited by:  Thomas Paul (Asgardian)  on Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:21 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:27 UTC

I like many others @Elwe Thor I have sat silent not bothering to talk because of the constant bullying tactics upheld by you and your friends.  I have however watched and read almost every post that is made here.  

All I see is the first day the constitution was made public as a draft, your captain produced his own version.  seems way too quick a production to me - Looks like he may have had most it already prepared.  


oh have you looked at the Japan Chapter - I'm sure he has helped them so much 2 articles posted today that are just come to the website and an IFL science article that is completely wrong and he would not have shared had he actually watched the press conference it is about, and a meme of a baby..... 


yes the Japanese must love his contributions as a local leader given that he seems to try and spoon feed one of the most educated and advanced kingdoms in the world


Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:50 UTC

@sabla
So... that was only a dream of mine?
https://asgardia.space/en/page/chronicles/Asgardia-Constitution-Draft

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 09:38 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: grammar

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 11:55 UTC

@Buck Rogers(Asgardian) on 19 June 2017, 7:39 a.m.

I was disgusted to find (redacted)s candidate letter and find he is a member of the asgardia staff,  how easily he has turned his back on his colleagues or has he just stabbed them in the back?  By creating misleading posts like this in everycorner of the forum.  I also want to know where his opinion is better than that of a team of legal advisors.  I found his online resume and see nowhere his legal experience.  Seems more like a lego hobbyist wanting to run his own lego empire. 
I think if he really is a member of staff he has already broken his campaign promises of standing up for people as he has already proven that his own ambition is bigger than his responsibility to his colleagues. 
In the most I agree with the admin decisions on this site, but I do see problems with the constitution and would like answers on how they are going to be solved, but this is not the way to go about doing so.   
and is it me or do you have a little rebel army following you around in every corner backing you up and bullying anyone who disagrees with you or your proposals.  Should this be added to your draft that the head of state (you) be given a private army to silence anyone who disagrees.  
and you talk of North Korea,

Welcome to Asgardia.Space, @Buck Rogers! I am delighted that you have decided to join the actual conversation on the official forums. I welcome your input in this open forum. I hope we can have an open, respectful dialogue to satisfy your concerns outlined in your very first post on this forum! You honor me by selecting my thread to first voice your opinions. I have not taken any great strides to hide myself nor my history. You are certainly clever enough to see that I have volunteered to be the Chapter Advocate for (redacted). I would hardly qualify myself as staff of Asgardia. But to clarify, I am indeed an unpaid volunteer

I am known online as (redacted). (redacted).

Everyone is welcomed to submit to become a volunteer for any number of open roles by submitting an email to volunteers@asgardia.space. This is what I did back in April 2017. It’s also worth mentioning that I am still in the training phase to become the official Chapter Advocate for Asgardia (redacted). Once that process is successfully completed (to the satisfaction of the Admins), my user status on this forum will be updated.

As you have already found my blog (https://asgardia.space/en/blog/candidate/125756-3439-champion-of-the-common-citizen-amp-justice/), I have indeed created a candidate profile with the hopes of addressing the concerns that many others have voiced in an official capacity. 

I have been very consistent in my positions on this forum. Everyone is welcomed to review my post history to confirm this for him/herself. I have no desire to mislead anyone. If anything, I am always willing to listen to other viewpoints. There are times, when I must update my own view as another person has debated their points well. I am only but human and by default, fallible. I do not view myself as above anyone. In fact, I’ll be among the first to admit there are many people far more intelligent than I on this forum. 

You are correct that I have no publically documented experience in the legal field beyond my consulting and entrepreneurial endeavors. My background is steep in information technologies. However, as I work at the international level, I must be well acquainted with contract law and how they operate in different countries. As any intelligent person, such as yourself, have noted: The Constitution presented thus far is not perfect. It does not require a team of legal experts to see issues with this document as-is. And, as history along with other more qualified people on this forum have stated, the time frame given to the community to form a proper and mutually agreeable document is significantly longer than just a few months!

Like you, I do applaud the concept and the dream for which Asgardia inspires. This is why I care so much to voice my views so loudly. I am not against the Good Doctor’s dream. Nor am I against everything that Dr. Igor Ashurbeyli is attempting to build. In fact, as you can search for yourself, I have not been absolutely against the form of Government either. As you are aware, I live and work in (redacted). (redacted) is governed under a Constitutional Monarchy. I have self-studied, in depth, the Constitutions of the U.S.A., Japan, Austria, Norway, and (to a small extent) North Korea. That said, I won’t profess to be an expert here. But, having exposure to these documents has given me great insights to how a proper Constitution is written. The points I take issue with are the severe lack of checks and balances as I have noted well in prior posts.

As noted in my first post on this thread, I’m attempting to consolidate everyone’s concerns in the same fashion done over the last several months by the Admin staff. You say: “this is not the way to go about doing so.I am happy to hear of better methods to bring about the changes on points in the Constitution for which you disagree.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Vir 16, 01 / Jul 31, 17 13:31 UTC, Total number of edits: 4 times
Reason: (redacted)

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 12:07 UTC

@LoreZyra,

It is not an honor.  It is the fact that I can no longer remain silent and what you try and manipulate this community further.  Why are you telling people that you are something that you are not!  What is this kindergarten?  This is the honesty we are to expect form you as a leader of our community... thank you for confirming my doubts on this.

@petrv,
I have read the code of conduct and I do not see how sharing a persons online resume could be see in anyway as 

"use direct profanity, sexually explicit language or other offensive content towards another Asgardian"

If you run for a government position all aspects of your public life should be open to investigation by the world, or is this again another attempt by the rebel alliance to silence all objections to LordZyra.  

Mods/admin please tell me if I am breaking the rule here but I cannot see how sharing public information is banned from this site.  

Is this to be taken as example of LordZyras rebel army and the censorship they are always trying to impose upon the rest of us.

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 12:09 UTC

and now you would wish me to not use my name.... at least I use my name and some strange internet handle as though this was a childish game we are playing 

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 12:38 UTC

Wait, your real name is Buck Rogers?

If so, I have to ask, do you have a pet robot, especially one named Twiki? Please have a pet robot.

DFZ

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 12:51 UTC

Buck Rogers(Asgardian) on 19 June 2017, 8:27 a.m.

All I see is the first day the constitution was made public as a draft, your captain produced his own version.  seems way too quick a production to me - Looks like he may have had most it already prepared.  

I'm glad you have taken an interest in my Democratic Technocracy Constitution (Asgardia.Constitution.Proposal.txt). I'll be the first to tell you it remains far from perfect. This is why I have left it in the public domain on GitHub for all to critique and collaborate (should you desire...) After I spent one sleepless night to analyze the first draft and posting that analysis online, I then felt the need to spend another two(!) sleepless nights with the help of a few other rather intelligent individuals to construct that draft while adhering to the challenge of keeping it as close in format to the first official draft as possible. If you wish, you can visit my GitHub repo and see that I constructed it over the course of a couple days after the first draft's release. I had, by no means, anything pre-developed prior to the draft's release.

I would welcome your thoughts to improve any presented version of the Constitution for Asgardia.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Vir 16, 01 / Jul 31, 17 14:36 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 12:51 UTC

@Buck Rogers(Asgardian) on 19 June 2017, 12:07 p.m.

It is the fact that I can no longer remain silent and what you try and manipulate this community further.  Why are you telling people that you are something that you are not! 

I'm happy to hear your thoughts on where you believe I am lying. Can you list them out for all to review? AS you mentioned in the same post:

If you run for a government position all aspects of your public life should be open to investigation by the world...

You are, again, correct. I have indeed volunteered to be reviewed by all. I am flattered you have taken such a keen interest in my contributions. I hope we can keep our discussion calm and on level.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 13:17 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 13:12 UTC

You see this is very funny that you would ask me if I'm interested in democratic technocracy as you again just confirmed for me that you had been working on your version since before the release of the actual draft.

http://www.technocracyinc.org/study-guide/

again public material but you seemed to have been showing a great interest in the subject as early as May, long before the constitution of asgardia was release.  

Again this makes me wonder if you would have ever accepted any official constitution as you obviously had your own in mind for a long time

  Last edited by:  Buck Rogers (Asgardian)  on Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 13:13 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: i made a spelling mistake