Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:41 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Second draft Constitution  

well this is actually getting better; di you actually put the information into the document or did someone do that for you, as had you actually read the very public document you would see the names list is present.  
I don't have any inside knowledge here unlike you , this is all stuff that is public that I am writing

it was petrv that stated he had worked with you, so not being part of the team as confirmed by Rebekah then anyone would presume his involvement in the compilation was behind closed doors.

I use the term rebel army to joke given all your fans current choice of profile image.  

and they themselves have asked people to join secret groups in the forum and said they are trying to get more supporters.

or is this not public knowledge??

but there is nothing nefarious going on.... and there is no secret group 

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:52 UTC

No @petrv this is very much still on topic and not trolling I am asking for the intent behind a misleading post that is having numerous other asgardians directed to in an attempt to cause trouble and problems.  

I find it deeply disturbing that you are unable to answer this and instead call me a cat breeder and again try and deflect the questions to another post.  

And this is why I accuse this group of being a rebel army and using peer pressure to bully your way in this forum.

You have all the answers until you are actually asked a question and then you deflect or redirect... bravo.... some presidents should take lessons from you.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:55 UTC


How does any of this relate to the second draft of the Constitution? I believe that is the point of this particular thread. Or, rather, was. Now it is just a bickering match between people behaving like children.


Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:07 UTC

I would very much consider it on point as I have argued.   My question is not about the constitution, but about this post and the motivations behind it's creation....

I baffles me as to how this is not a simple question should there not be some form of disruptive answer.  

and it is disturbing that you and your group that always post together are trying to turn this simple question into that I am trolling and being disruptive

Answer the question please. 

What is the motivation behind directing people to this post? what is the motivation behind calling the constitution that I voted on a draft?

other than to push a constitution variation that was written by LordZyra I can see no functional reason - you have not brought any new points only constantly look at my version, look at me comments.  

I'm sorry that as a candidate for leadership lordzyra cannot answer this and instead is relying upon his reble army to try and deflect the conversation else where or to discredit me.  

He has answered questions but he seems to hide away from these big ones

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:17 UTC

Buck, you keep misspelling his name. It is LoreZyra. No D in his name. I can understand getting it wrong but now that it has been pointed out I am hoping you self-correct. Why is it so hard for people to address one another by their actual names and not make up monikers for them that they then use to demean each other? I see petrv did the same with that thread he made misspelling your name. He should fix that as well. Hopefully we can go back to having reasonable non-emotional disagreements.

Going back to the OP, it seems this thread was created to discuss the second draft of the Constitution after it had been posted as no one in administration at the time had seen fit to open a thread to allow discussion of the second draft of the Constitution. I recall, at the time, that there was no post about it and Lore made one. I fail to see anything nefarious or secret about it.

Perhaps you are referring to another post? Can you link to it, please, so that perhaps I can act as an outside opinion who really doesn't give a shit except to facilitate clearer communications?

EDIT: Also, it is after 2am in Japan where Lore lives right now. Of course he isn't responding. He is likely sleeping. Others who know him and respect him will, no doubt, act as people normally do to share those experiences they have of the person you are denegrating in an effort to explain to you (or, as some are, behaving like children and bickering with you). Perhaps giving him 12 hours to sleep, get ready, and then answer you might be best?


  Updated  on Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:20 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:39 UTC

Hi Guys. Glad to see so many contributors at one place!

Please!, let us work on the "second draft of the Constitution" (even if everything is that bad all say, and asgardia is going to be  a dictatorship)! I by myself do not know much about law, that's why I need you guys, to work on this, since I've followed much of your feedback on the Constitution in his forum and agree to many comments.

Please work on the Constitution, so people like me can see the current Constitution becoming a Constitution that we can accept in unity.

Best regards, temir

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:43 UTC

Sorry at Phicksur I was getting my Starwars confussed with this Rebel Alliance and the need for a Lord 


No secret behind doors groups here discussing the constitution at all.... 

whilst he maybe asleep now he was not hours ago when he was consistently deflecting the question rather than answer it 

And why would the administration open a post to discuss the constitution that is being voted on the absurdity of such a concept is mind blowing you accept or you don't. 

The purpose of calling the constitution a draft as far as I can see is purely an attempt to rally support behind his own document that he is upset was not given more consideration when he tried to push it into the summary.  If you read the summary you will see that multiple lines are referenced to his own personal document.  

childish games to push his own agenda whilst we are left with community that is being purposefully disenfranchised to suit his end game which is apparently a position in the asgardia government fighting for our justice.  when all I have seen so far is corruption.  

I will wait for him to respond.... 

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:46 UTC

so petrv you can speak for lorEzyra.... I thought there was not a group.... 

As I said you do not approach trying to change an active document in this way unless you are a rebellion - oh wait that takes planning in secret and that's not happening is it!

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 17:47 UTC

I'm gone I will be back when he is available to talk.  Or do you speak for him like a good lieutenant?

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 18:11 UTC

@Buck Rogers

Amusingly, up until your fourth most recent post, you never actually asked these questions. It's no wonder that no one has responded to them, seeing as though they were never submitted.

"What is the motivation behind directing people to this post? what is the motivation behind calling the constitution that I voted on a draft?"

To the questions you posed above, I do not believe that anyone is attempting to answer on behalf of @LoreZyra, but the answers are quite obvious.

  1. The purpose of this post is to discuss, in public forum, the second draft constitution which has been proposed by the people running the Asgardian website/government as of right now
    1. I do not understand your concerns with people coming together to discuss this
    2. As an example, I would equate this to voting on a law in a US State. There are public forums where citizens who choose to try and become more informed on the law can go to discuss the pros and cons. In addition to this, there are often opinions published in the voting packet that each citizen receives, which state the reasons that those people writing the opinions feel you should vote in favor or against.
    3. This is all a means to attempt to help voters become educated, should they so choose.
  2. The reason for calling the draft constitution a draft, as @LoreZyrahas already answered in a previous post, is that, until a constitution is truly ratified (which will not happen until the required number of voters vote in favor of the constitution), it will indefinitely remain in a draft state.

Hope this helps to clear your questions up. As I stated, I'm not speaking on behalf of @LoreZyra, and if you would like his specific responses to this, please feel free to wait for him to wake up and respond.

Back to the original intention of this post,

As others have stated, I am concerned that, not only did the governing bodies choose to ignore many of the inputs of the forum, but they seemed to double down on the monarchy that most people (in the forum at least) had an issue with.


Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 18:12 UTC

Wasn't @Jason_Rainbow actually in that 'secret behind doors group' for a bit as well? I know I am in a LOT of behind-doors groups because I keep getting invited. Apparently I engender respect or something. I dunno.

As far as I know, with all the involvements with various 'behind doors groups' that I have been invited to participate in and/or advise, I can honestly say that no one is coordinating anything against Asgardia, or the admins, or even each other. Half the time it seems like bickering, really, and not terribly productive. I find myself wondering if this whole endeavor is doomed to infighting because no one actually trust each other because THEY ALL KEEP DOING THIS CRAP LIKE IT IS A SECRET.

*sigh* Well, maybe in the next generation people will be less distrustful and more cooperative. (Of course, I thought that 20 years ago, and I am still wrong, but I keep hoping.)


Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 18:31 UTC

So everyone is telling us that there is no secret group and then we find out there is a secret group.  

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 18:32 UTC

So it wasn't really a secret, then? It was publicly advertised?

EDIT: For the record, after I had found out you'd left (or were removed, I have no idea which way that happened), I told them it was stupid not to have you in there.


  Updated  on Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 18:36 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 18:41 UTC

@Bloody Clean my question was that I asked originally as you seem to have missed it! how a member of  the asgardia team can create a line of posts deliberately to cause problems whilst at the time campaigning to represent asgardians as a champion of justice.  

it seems like a line of posts to further a political gain and not to represent anyone but himself.  

It has turned into this mess his rebel army have taken it upon themselves to defend him from what would have been a simple question that any candidate for a government should be prepared to answer.  why it was such a hard question to answer I do not know.

  had he not attempted to deflect my question and had this rebellion not attempted to defend him this would have been answered in 1 or 2 posts instead I have been fighting to get a sensible answer which at least you have finally half provided


Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 19:08 UTC

Ok, hold on, let me try to make some sense of this:


You open up with the following post: 

>> I agree with @Protean, 

>> I was disgusted to find LoreZyras candidate letter and find he is a member of the asgardia staff,  how easily he has turned his back on his colleagues or has he just stabbed them in the back?  By creating misleading posts like this in everycorner of the forum.  I also want to know where his opinion is better than that of a team of legal advisors.  I found his online resume and see nowhere his legal experience (http://www.richiebartlett.com/).  Seems more like a lego hobbyist wanting to run his own lego empire. 

>> I think if he really is a member of staff he has already broken his campaign promises of standing up for people as he has already proven that his own ambition is bigger than his responsibility to his colleagues. 

>> In the most I agree with the admin decisions on this site, but I do see problems with the constitution and would like answers on how they are going to be solved, but this is not the way to go about doing so.   

>> and is it me or do you have a little rebel army following you around in every corner backing you up and bullying anyone who disagrees with you or your proposals.  Should this be added to your draft that the head of state (you) be given a private army to silence anyone who disagrees.  

>> and you talk of North Korea,

So, herein you immediately attack him not only as a candidate, but as a citizen and a human being. Ignoring the fact this is against the ToS for the forums, you are allowed to continue because under the Constitution the right of free speech is now inviolate (meaning, no one can ever be banned from posting again if they are a citizen, something I doubt administration took into account with this Constitution). 

If I am reading this correctly you are basically accusing him of being a turncoat on the general population in your first paragraph without providing any evidence of this, and demanding you be proven wrong. Given that it is impossible to prove a negative, you are setting up a situation in which his failure is assured and now complaining that he is not engaging it in the manner you know he will fail.

Next, over the course of the next couple of paragraphs, you accuse him of leading some rebel army (which, knowing the parties involved, I cannot help but laugh at the idea of this undisciplined group ever being mistaken for an army), and bullying people. Again, you do so with no evidence and, again, demand he prove you wrong (see previous paragraph).

Next, you make similarities with North Korea, which is the latest Internet version of calling someone a Nazi: a way of staining reputation without, again, demonstrating any actual association.


The next few posts continue the personal attacks on Lore and you use his friends coming to his defense as proof of nefarious dealings? Exactly how did you expect his friends to behave when you are doing your absolute best to slander him? Sit by and do nothing? The idea that his friends would stand by and say nothing just demonstrates you are trolling, not possessing of any real arguments, and wanting to damage him politically.

In fact, instead of responding to your mudslinging with the same complete disregard for respect and courtesy that you have shown, he actually took the high road, invited you cordially, and was POLITE TO YOU. HOW DARE HE BE NICE TO YOU WHEN YOU ARE BEHAVING LIKE SUCH AN ASS! It made it harder for you to justify your course of action, so you instead took to attacking those around him who chose to support him.

You attacked Elwe (who loves to engage in forum battles), and petrv (who never, ever, backs down even when he should) for nothing more than their wanting to defend their friend.

Sorry, Buck, but you really should stop here. And to think, I named my first dog after you (well, the guy on the TV series).