Can 09, 01 / May 29, 17 16:27 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

Querzion and Dmitry Novoseltsev have some excellent ideas towards the draft Constitution and most I agree with.  I have three major issues with the draft as it sits, and I'll be brief:

1.  Monarchy and age limits.   Having the Space Nation of Asgardia be a Monarchy implies different, and unequal, classes of citizenship. I believe position and responsibility for governing should be available to all citizens depending on their abilities, interest, professional qualifications and effectiveness.  "Royal" has many implied connotations and could easily be exploited by the right personality.  I do NOT want Asgardia to evolve into a "Space Empire!"  Checks-and-balances against subverting the intent of the Constitution could too easily be circumvented as Asgardia expands and communication and information delays become a significant factor.

There should be a minimum age limit for higher offices, as age often implies maturity and wisdom, however it should not 50-years old.  In many countries citizens are eligible to fight and die for their terrestrial nations at 17- or 18-yo.  In the USA, for example, the minimum age for president is 35.  Age limits should be consistant throughout all offices except for Head of State.  I know of many early 20- to 30-somethings managing multi-billion dollar companies with 10's-of-thousands of employees. Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and Elon Musk of Tesla/SpaceX are a couple of examples.  I'm sure they could effectively handle a Space Nation.  A conversational exchange from a favorite movie of mine ("Down Periscope") comes to mind:  "Aren't you a little young for this, Marty?"  "Excellence knows no age, Sir!"

2.  International Space Law.  Asgardia is intended to be a space-faring nation.  Space and the universe is vast...should a group of planet-bound nations on a single planet dictate what should happen on the Moon, or Mars, or the Solar System, the Milky Way, etc.?  As it sits right now, international treaty states that a private citizen cannot own property on the moon.  Heck, private individuals cannot even own land on Antarctica.  I want to own my own asteroid someday and I do not want some terrestrial nation exercising "eminent domain" over what my work accomplishes.

3. Currency.  I STRONGLY object to to Gor as the official name and denomination of Asgardian currency. Just google "gor as currency" and nearly all of the hits are based upon a sci-fi/fantasy novel series by John Norman in which females are natural slaves and property.  Do we really want our money to have such connotations?  As mentioned above, the AC (Asgardian Credit) should be a widely accepted and reasonable option.

More thoughts on things later as I delve further, but those immediately come to mind.

Cheers!

  Last edited by:  George Osborne (Asgardian)  on Can 09, 01 / May 29, 17 16:39 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: Spelling

Can 09, 01 / May 29, 17 16:34 UTC

According to message from  LoreZyra: 

"The compilation team has added all of your comments and concerns into a  single document that will be submitted to the LEGAL team and  translators. "

we should wait for a new draft, and discussion of the old one is not an efficient work. I hope that voting date will be shifted, constitution is not that thing with which we should hurry.

Can 09, 01 / May 29, 17 20:48 UTC

The French version of the official Constitution is now on line.

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that the very top priority of the core team is to first produce the draft Constitution in all 13 official languages, this before the June 18 deadline. This is not a small task and they may be under a lot of pressure.

Hopefully, the discussion and feedback will begin after this has been achieved, if enough time remains before the vote.

 PS: Again, I am having problems with the Captcha? None of my previous posts has been accepted on the first try although I am quite sure that I typed in the correct characters. Is there a problem with the server?

Can 09, 01 / May 29, 17 21:14 UTC

Articles 32 and 33 as currently drafted are a deal-breaker for me.  I have lots of comments on the rest, but not worth getting into unless the balance of power is addressed, more checks and balances introduced and generally the constitution made more democratic.  The powers of the Head of State are too great, and open to abuse.  The Royal Council of Supreme Values is to my mind an unnecessary and very sinister body.  Unless there are fundamental revisions, I'm out.    

Can 09, 01 / May 29, 17 21:54 UTC

@Dmitry Novoseltsev
And it is time, starting with this Constitution, to take "Asgardian  English" a neutral pronoun to describe the person at all, to replace all  these bureaucratic "he/she".

I agree on that very much.
I propose to adopt, into the Basic language @LoreZyra proposed as official one, "ehs" as the neutral pronoun.
I'm not that strong in grammar so I'm sure others will find something better.

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 00:01 UTC

Precisamos seguir no sentido da Sabedoria, e não deixar a Vaidade nos Confundir, e os Orgulhos nos Destruir, não podemos deixar que Asgardia vire uma Mentalidade igual a dos Cidadãos da Terra, Temos que colocar os Sentidos no Lugar, como que, qualquer Desvio Independente quais Categorias Sejas, Implementar, Sim e Não, pois só assim seriamos Justos, e Justo, seria a nossa Justiça. ''Refletir e Filosofar''. No que se refere a Constitucional na Asgardia,

We need to follow in the sense of wisdom, and not let vanity confuse us, and prides destroy us, we cannot let Asgard turn into a mentality equal to the citizens of the Earth, we have to put the senses in place, like that, any independent deviation which categories are, implement, yes and no, because only so would we be fair, and fair, would be our justice. ' ' Reflect and philosophize ' '. As regards constitutional in the Asgard,

  Last edited by:  Shane Watt (Asgardian, Global Mod)  on Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 02:55 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: bing translation, 05/29/17 shane watt

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 01:30 UTC

He/ she  Him /Her Why not just use They or Them To make a new noun is silly and so earth political correct 

Every one speaks about wanting to be different ,But just keep going on being the same doing the same things

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 02:44 UTC

@Elwe Thor - "ehs" = "Every He and She"?

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 02:52 UTC

to bluecloud unless its gender pacific they or them is good

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 05:55 UTC

In the text several times the concept of a "digitized noosphere". 

I would like to  amend article 24 at the end:
In an effort to provide the fundamental indestructibility of intelligent life and civilization, Asgardia carries out systematic dissemination of digitized noosphere in space and time. 

What I meant was, can be viewed here (http://i4is.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Principium17%201705170945.opt.pdf, pp. 30-35) or at the engineering forum topic "Catalysis: project for future."
Although there may be other options.

  Last edited by:  Dmitry Novoseltsev (Asgardian)  on Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 05:55 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 06:15 UTC

Для меня этот проект не подходит, это MMO RPG. Без других вариантов это вообще не выбор.

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 12:52 UTC

Article 2: the monarchy is a strange and doubtful, and create the title is "Founder"

Article 6, Item 5: I think you need to modify in the future

Article 15, paragraph 1: in what cases will use the property for the greater good ?

Article 32, paragraph 4 : I think it's a lot

I think you need to highlight some articles of the Constitution is the basic law and all other laws can change and adjust as you like depending on the interpretation of the Constitution.

  Last edited by:  Anatoliy Pronin (Asgardian)  on Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 12:53 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 13:06 UTC

@Ewe Thor

I very much like the idea of the neutral pronoun "ehs". 

In fact I think I'll integrate it into the Skieswanne-Ghodrati Constitution Draft. Anyone in favour?

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 13:32 UTC

@Dmitry Novoseltsev(Asgardian) on 30 May 2017, 5:55 a.m.

What I meant was, can be viewed here (http://i4is.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Principium17%201705170945.opt.pdf, pp. 30-35) or at the engineering forum topic "Catalysis: project for future."

Thank you, Dmitry! That was a fascinating read! What would you project the cost of constructing, launching, and monitoring such Sower, Keeper, and Memory Fleet vehicles?

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 13:34 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 15:04 UTC

@LoreZyra - At this stage I can't appreciate it. 

I can only say that the cost will be relatively small, because it is essentially about mass production of a large number of quite simple devices of the same type.

It is now necessary to study the project, and I'm trying to interest them in specialized structures like Breakthrough Initiatives. 

This theme also resonates with the paragraph in the draft of the Constitution, which declares the right of citizens to the memory after death - it is possible to collect and disseminate of an Asgardian citizen database.