Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 13:32 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

@Dmitry Novoseltsev(Asgardian) on 30 May 2017, 5:55 a.m.

What I meant was, can be viewed here (http://i4is.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Principium17%201705170945.opt.pdf, pp. 30-35) or at the engineering forum topic "Catalysis: project for future."

Thank you, Dmitry! That was a fascinating read! What would you project the cost of constructing, launching, and monitoring such Sower, Keeper, and Memory Fleet vehicles?

  Last edited by:  user 125756 (Asgardian)  on Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 13:34 UTC, edited 2 times in total.

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 15:04 UTC

@LoreZyra - At this stage I can't appreciate it. 

I can only say that the cost will be relatively small, because it is essentially about mass production of a large number of quite simple devices of the same type.

It is now necessary to study the project, and I'm trying to interest them in specialized structures like Breakthrough Initiatives. 

This theme also resonates with the paragraph in the draft of the Constitution, which declares the right of citizens to the memory after death - it is possible to collect and disseminate of an Asgardian citizen database.

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 15:13 UTC

Question for the Mods

Will the vote be "anonymous"?

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 18:33 UTC

Voting yes is a required step to citizenship according to the direction laid out so far. Can't be anonymous and still validate citizenship.


Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 19:11 UTC

Why not to use simple "person" insted of he/she?

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 19:41 UTC

 [quote] thymeless(Asgardian) on 30 May 2017, 6:33 p.m.                                            

Voting yes is a required  step to citizenship according to the direction laid out so far. Can't  be anonymous and still validate citizenship. [/quote]

I am aware. What happens if a person doesn't vote? Again, for a Mod to answer

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 19:42 UTC

@Dmitry
'Cause sometimes the sentence's structure needs an "he" or a "she". I would like to have only sentences requiring "person", as I personally prefer it but, as far as I know, it simply can't be done.

@Dmitry Novoseltsev & @skieswanne
I proposed the neologism without explaining it.
So, I noticed both uses: he/she and (less frequent) (s)he, that brought me to think "he" is included into "she" so, using "she" can mean both. But, as for the way we use the language, "she" means "she" only, and not "she". So, to cope with the popular use of the language, I tried thinking something not too different and, at the same time, we can seamless adopt into Basic (which I think at, like as Unish: extensible).
That line of thinking generated ehs, which includes both "eh" and "she" in some way, but in a different way of how "she" included both ones.
Far more complicate to explain that to use. :D

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 20:35 UTC

A MONARCHY ?

Who's the king ? Igor 1st ?

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 21:24 UTC

English: I am disagree in two points:

1) Article 2: Asgardia must not be a monarchy, it must be a republic. 

2) Article 34.3: The Members of Parliament should be elected with 18 years, not 50.

Spanish: Estoy en desacuerdo en dos puntos:

1) Artículo 2: Asgardia no debe ser una monarquía, debe ser una república.

2) Artículo 34.3: Los Diputados deberían ser elegidos con 18 años, no 50.

  Last edited by:  96yeyo (Asgardian)  on Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 21:25 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 23:01 UTC

About the question of the Age: We're going right true a gerontocracy or what? I'm not at all against the idea of an assembly like the Royal Council composed of person older than 50, to be a sort of Senate that will guarantee and guarantee the basic rights. The Parliament in exchange have to be opened to people over 25 years old at most. 


Maybe a stupid question, but how will we vote?

Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 23:07 UTC

Hello Asgardians.

I share what seems to be overwhelming dissatisfaction with this draft. It looks silly, almost like it is from sort of second rate children's science fiction book, and I'm afraid that if the referendum is not postponed there might not be enough time to fix it.

Fellow Asgardians seem to have already pointed out all of the problems with it, so I would like to suggest some possible solutions. Specifically for the issue of disbanding the parliament and removal of the HoS from office. For instance, the HoS can propose the disbandment of the parliament. He could suspend it for a short period of time, several weeks to a month. At the end of that period a referendum is held. At that referendum one of two things happens: either the parliament is disbanded, or the HoS is removed from office. The same thing happens if the parliament proposes that the head of state is removed from his position: a referendum is held in which of of two things happens: either the HoS is removed or the parliament is disbanded. 

For these referendums a 60% majority is needed. If there is no 60% majority for either of the options (HoS goes or parliament is disbanded), new elections are automatically called for and held as soon as possible, for both parliament and HoS. 

If you are wondering why I think this system is probably good, the answer is because I think there should be a political cost and risk that would prevent political machinations and power struggles, as well as giving the citizens the final word in important matters like this. This is also me thinking out loud and throwing ideas here for brainstorming. This might be a good or terrible idea. You decide.

I would like to add one more thing—please calm down with the gender neutral stuff. I have nothing against people's rights, but the whole right vs left, liberal vs conservative, extreme ideologies and the clash between these two polar opposites is not a good template for uniting humanity. Asgarida should be a nation of common sense, pragmatical thinking, freedom of thought and expression, not of thought police and hysterical paranoia over pronouns. Personally I think a good solution for the gender pronoun issue is not a gender neutral one, but using both. So for instance everywhere where we would have a “he” we would instead have “he or she.” 

My two cents. 

  Last edited by:  Aleksandar Neshkovski (Asgardian)  on Jun 10, 01 / May 30, 17 23:09 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 11, 01 / May 31, 17 01:51 UTC

After acepting the Asgardian constitution i would be an asgardian citizen?

Jun 11, 01 / May 31, 17 02:58 UTC

@96yeyo "The Members of Parliament should be elected with 18 years, not 50."

I'll try again to convey the thesis of the redundancy of the age limit.

Advancing in Parliament, you will have to present and defend your program, and possibly to participate in the debate. 

If you are 10 years old, you are not can to do it. If the 18 - may be able. If 50 is too, most likely, will be able, though not necessarily, people are different, some to old age are not getting smarter (I hope that the citizens of Asgardia are not this case). Without this you can't be elected. 

But if you 10 years and you still have made and defended the program - so, you're a genius and you have the right to be elected.

Jun 11, 01 / May 31, 17 07:25 UTC

Not being a professional lawyer, I want to note some points in part of the project related to justice (articles 37, 38, 40). Such close attention to the court and Prosecutor's office in the draft Constitution at all seems a little sinister – I would suggest all the "police" part to minimize and to bring in a separate legislation. Alarming theses about the interaction with law enforcement agencies of other States. Although the draft Constitution is literally forbidden prisons and other reprisals, under a certain interpretation it remains possible to give these functions “for outsourcing” – especially that there is at least one state, willingly pursuing and arresting people all over the planet, regardless of their nationality and location.

At the same time, to prevent possible abuse, I would like to supplement these sections with the following principles.

  • - Right and duty of citizens of Asgardia is the need for the possibility of a voluntary settlement of any conflict situations with the participation of citizens groups or public entities based on mutual interests without the involvement of formal law enforcement structures of Asgardia.

  • - The reasoned intervention of law-enforcement structures are possible only on the initiative of citizens or their groups, and the initiators take the responsibility for the possible consequences.

  • - Unreasonable and unwarranted involvement and interference of law enforcement agencies is unacceptable and constitutes an offence and a violation of fundamental rights and freedoms of citizens.

(This is not an idle thought. Only recently had to decide such a complex and unpleasant issue in respect of a close relative. The possibility of any action for false accusation of Asgardia should be excluded).

Jun 11, 01 / May 31, 17 11:03 UTC

And some considerations on the socio-economic unit that is separate and not selected. 

Here never sounded (although several times I noticed), as is the named economic model and the society that we want to. "???-izm"?

But some things still indicated:

Article 17, 2. Asgardia is a state of social justice ...

Article 18, 6. The state seeks to minimize the inequality of social conditions and opportunities of the citizens of Asgardia, including due to the conditions of their country of physical residence.


I would like to add the following thoughts.

- One of the goals of Asgardia is the creation of the welfare state, providing optimal conditions for the citizens .

- One of the principles of organization of society is the reduction of inequality of citizens fore fundamentally insignificant level (about inequality and its impact on society I have previously provided a link https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/the-spirit-level ).

- Given the fact that complete economic equality is unattainable by non-coercive because of the natural differences between people, and given the significant heterogeneity of the initial state of the citizens of Asgardia at the time of its formation, the goal of socio-economic activities of the state is to ensure the principle of equality of living standards and opportunities for its citizens. (Here it is not so difficult as it seems. The idea is this: if in one village, the neighborhood is home to millionaire, billionaire and multi-billionaire, their standard of living and consumption vary so slightly that it is not always possible to determine who is who (unless they are the appropriate people). They are roughly the same transport, schools, hospitals, gyms, etc. with roughly the same cost of it. Differences arise in the potential. Someone can create their own projects to a greater or lesser scale, and someone joins while applicable). 

- Any discrimination of citizens in terms of socio-economic well-being and any property qualification not allowed.

- Citizens are guaranteed the right to equal access to the benefits and opportunities provided by Asgardia in its infrastructure, given current technical capabilities, and targeted their extension to the full realization of this right.

- A mechanism to ensure socio-economic equality of the citizens of Asgardia is non-confiscatory. The alignment of the socio-economic level is provided not at the expense of reduction of incomes of the most wealthy citizens, and by creating conditions for faster growth of the income of less affluent citizens. (This is an attempt to circumvent the rake, which with good intentions came the ancestors after the revolution of 1917).

- Confiscatory measures are permissible only in respect of income from activities that cause deliberate harm to other citizens of Asgardia and their groups, if such activity has not been previously prevented by the legal mechanisms of Asgardia. (Perhaps the paragraph redundant. This refers to pyramid schemes, speculation in goods and services, and other types of fraud, drug trafficking and other obviously harmful goods, etc.).

- In the general case, is unacceptable increase in or preservation of life standard of some people of Asgardia or groups at the expense of reducing the living standards of others.

Like this. I propose to clarify and supplement.