Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 15:13 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

Question for the Mods

Will the vote be "anonymous"?

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 18:33 UTC

Voting yes is a required step to citizenship according to the direction laid out so far. Can't be anonymous and still validate citizenship.

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 19:11 UTC

Why not to use simple "person" insted of he/she?

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 19:41 UTC

 [quote] thymeless(Asgardian) on 30 May 2017, 6:33 p.m.                                            

Voting yes is a required  step to citizenship according to the direction laid out so far. Can't  be anonymous and still validate citizenship. [/quote]

I am aware. What happens if a person doesn't vote? Again, for a Mod to answer

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 19:42 UTC

'Cause sometimes the sentence's structure needs an "he" or a "she". I would like to have only sentences requiring "person", as I personally prefer it but, as far as I know, it simply can't be done.

@Dmitry Novoseltsev & @skieswanne
I proposed the neologism without explaining it.
So, I noticed both uses: he/she and (less frequent) (s)he, that brought me to think "he" is included into "she" so, using "she" can mean both. But, as for the way we use the language, "she" means "she" only, and not "she". So, to cope with the popular use of the language, I tried thinking something not too different and, at the same time, we can seamless adopt into Basic (which I think at, like as Unish: extensible).
That line of thinking generated ehs, which includes both "eh" and "she" in some way, but in a different way of how "she" included both ones.
Far more complicate to explain that to use. :D

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 20:35 UTC


Who's the king ? Igor 1st ?

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 21:24 UTC

English: I am disagree in two points:

1) Article 2: Asgardia must not be a monarchy, it must be a republic. 

2) Article 34.3: The Members of Parliament should be elected with 18 years, not 50.

Spanish: Estoy en desacuerdo en dos puntos:

1) Artículo 2: Asgardia no debe ser una monarquía, debe ser una república.

2) Artículo 34.3: Los Diputados deberían ser elegidos con 18 años, no 50.

  Last edited by:  Sergio Garcia (Asgardian)  on Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 21:25 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 23:01 UTC

About the question of the Age: We're going right true a gerontocracy or what? I'm not at all against the idea of an assembly like the Royal Council composed of person older than 50, to be a sort of Senate that will guarantee and guarantee the basic rights. The Parliament in exchange have to be opened to people over 25 years old at most. 

Maybe a stupid question, but how will we vote?

Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 23:07 UTC

Hello Asgardians.

I share what seems to be overwhelming dissatisfaction with this draft. It looks silly, almost like it is from sort of second rate children's science fiction book, and I'm afraid that if the referendum is not postponed there might not be enough time to fix it.

Fellow Asgardians seem to have already pointed out all of the problems with it, so I would like to suggest some possible solutions. Specifically for the issue of disbanding the parliament and removal of the HoS from office. For instance, the HoS can propose the disbandment of the parliament. He could suspend it for a short period of time, several weeks to a month. At the end of that period a referendum is held. At that referendum one of two things happens: either the parliament is disbanded, or the HoS is removed from office. The same thing happens if the parliament proposes that the head of state is removed from his position: a referendum is held in which of of two things happens: either the HoS is removed or the parliament is disbanded. 

For these referendums a 60% majority is needed. If there is no 60% majority for either of the options (HoS goes or parliament is disbanded), new elections are automatically called for and held as soon as possible, for both parliament and HoS. 

If you are wondering why I think this system is probably good, the answer is because I think there should be a political cost and risk that would prevent political machinations and power struggles, as well as giving the citizens the final word in important matters like this. This is also me thinking out loud and throwing ideas here for brainstorming. This might be a good or terrible idea. You decide.

I would like to add one more thing—please calm down with the gender neutral stuff. I have nothing against people's rights, but the whole right vs left, liberal vs conservative, extreme ideologies and the clash between these two polar opposites is not a good template for uniting humanity. Asgarida should be a nation of common sense, pragmatical thinking, freedom of thought and expression, not of thought police and hysterical paranoia over pronouns. Personally I think a good solution for the gender pronoun issue is not a gender neutral one, but using both. So for instance everywhere where we would have a “he” we would instead have “he or she.” 

My two cents. 

  Last edited by:  Aleksandar Neshkovski (Asgardian)  on Can 10, 01 / May 30, 17 23:09 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 01:51 UTC

After acepting the Asgardian constitution i would be an asgardian citizen?

Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 02:58 UTC

@96yeyo "The Members of Parliament should be elected with 18 years, not 50."

I'll try again to convey the thesis of the redundancy of the age limit.

Advancing in Parliament, you will have to present and defend your program, and possibly to participate in the debate. 

If you are 10 years old, you are not can to do it. If the 18 - may be able. If 50 is too, most likely, will be able, though not necessarily, people are different, some to old age are not getting smarter (I hope that the citizens of Asgardia are not this case). Without this you can't be elected. 

But if you 10 years and you still have made and defended the program - so, you're a genius and you have the right to be elected.

Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 07:25 UTC

Not being a professional lawyer, I want to note some points in part of the project related to justice (articles 37, 38, 40). Such close attention to the court and Prosecutor's office in the draft Constitution at all seems a little sinister – I would suggest all the "police" part to minimize and to bring in a separate legislation. Alarming theses about the interaction with law enforcement agencies of other States. Although the draft Constitution is literally forbidden prisons and other reprisals, under a certain interpretation it remains possible to give these functions “for outsourcing” – especially that there is at least one state, willingly pursuing and arresting people all over the planet, regardless of their nationality and location.

At the same time, to prevent possible abuse, I would like to supplement these sections with the following principles.

  • - Right and duty of citizens of Asgardia is the need for the possibility of a voluntary settlement of any conflict situations with the participation of citizens groups or public entities based on mutual interests without the involvement of formal law enforcement structures of Asgardia.

  • - The reasoned intervention of law-enforcement structures are possible only on the initiative of citizens or their groups, and the initiators take the responsibility for the possible consequences.

  • - Unreasonable and unwarranted involvement and interference of law enforcement agencies is unacceptable and constitutes an offence and a violation of fundamental rights and freedoms of citizens.

(This is not an idle thought. Only recently had to decide such a complex and unpleasant issue in respect of a close relative. The possibility of any action for false accusation of Asgardia should be excluded).

Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 11:03 UTC

And some considerations on the socio-economic unit that is separate and not selected. 

Here never sounded (although several times I noticed), as is the named economic model and the society that we want to. "???-izm"?

But some things still indicated:

Article 17, 2. Asgardia is a state of social justice ...

Article 18, 6. The state seeks to minimize the inequality of social conditions and opportunities of the citizens of Asgardia, including due to the conditions of their country of physical residence.

I would like to add the following thoughts.

- One of the goals of Asgardia is the creation of the welfare state, providing optimal conditions for the citizens .

- One of the principles of organization of society is the reduction of inequality of citizens fore fundamentally insignificant level (about inequality and its impact on society I have previously provided a link ).

- Given the fact that complete economic equality is unattainable by non-coercive because of the natural differences between people, and given the significant heterogeneity of the initial state of the citizens of Asgardia at the time of its formation, the goal of socio-economic activities of the state is to ensure the principle of equality of living standards and opportunities for its citizens. (Here it is not so difficult as it seems. The idea is this: if in one village, the neighborhood is home to millionaire, billionaire and multi-billionaire, their standard of living and consumption vary so slightly that it is not always possible to determine who is who (unless they are the appropriate people). They are roughly the same transport, schools, hospitals, gyms, etc. with roughly the same cost of it. Differences arise in the potential. Someone can create their own projects to a greater or lesser scale, and someone joins while applicable). 

- Any discrimination of citizens in terms of socio-economic well-being and any property qualification not allowed.

- Citizens are guaranteed the right to equal access to the benefits and opportunities provided by Asgardia in its infrastructure, given current technical capabilities, and targeted their extension to the full realization of this right.

- A mechanism to ensure socio-economic equality of the citizens of Asgardia is non-confiscatory. The alignment of the socio-economic level is provided not at the expense of reduction of incomes of the most wealthy citizens, and by creating conditions for faster growth of the income of less affluent citizens. (This is an attempt to circumvent the rake, which with good intentions came the ancestors after the revolution of 1917).

- Confiscatory measures are permissible only in respect of income from activities that cause deliberate harm to other citizens of Asgardia and their groups, if such activity has not been previously prevented by the legal mechanisms of Asgardia. (Perhaps the paragraph redundant. This refers to pyramid schemes, speculation in goods and services, and other types of fraud, drug trafficking and other obviously harmful goods, etc.).

- In the general case, is unacceptable increase in or preservation of life standard of some people of Asgardia or groups at the expense of reducing the living standards of others.

Like this. I propose to clarify and supplement.

Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 16:27 UTC

Конституция Асгардии должная включать Идею  универсального базового дохода (УБИ) – это стандартная база “зарплата” для каждого члена общества, которая может удовлетворить наши основные потребности  независимо от работы, которую мы делаем.  Штат Аляска, опыт создания  “постоянного  фонда” , который распределяет дивиденды каждому жителю, чтобы они могли пользоваться всеми богатствами, почерпнутые из государственных  природных ресурсов, все граждане  в равной степени. Мы, в Асгадрии, должны иметь общество, которое измеряет прогресс не только экономическими показателями, такими как ВВП. Мы должны применить идеи универсального основного дохода, чтобы у всех граждан Асгардии была стабильная материальная основа, чтобы создавать и пробовать новые идеи. Цукерберг пополнил список экспертов и Новаторов, которые считают поддержку базовых человеческих потребностей  приоритетной по отношению к экономическим показателям . Он присоединяется к  Элону Маску, Биллу Гейтсу, Энди Стерн, Тимофей Höttges. Пилотные программы УБИ показывают  сильные стороны и выгоды различных стратегий, и данные по Аляске  могут  подсказать, как такие программы могут выдержать испытание временем в Асгардии.

The Asgardia Constitution should include the Universal Basic Income Idea (UBI) - this is the standard "salary" basis for every member of society that can meet our basic needs regardless of the work that we do. The state of Alaska, the experience of creating a "permanent fund," which distributes dividends to each resident so that they can enjoy all the riches gleaned from state natural resources, all citizens equally. We in Asgadria should have a society that measures progress not only by economic indicators, such as GDP. We must apply the ideas of universal basic income so that all citizens of Asgardia have a stable material basis to create and try new ideas. Zuckerberg joined the list of experts and innovators, who consider supporting basic human needs as a priority in relation to economic indicators. He joins Elon Mask, Bill Gates, Andy Stern, Timothy Höttges. The UBI pilot programs show the strengths and benefits of different strategies, and the Alaska data can tell how such programs can stand the test of time in Asgardia.

Admin Edit: Translation provided by Google - Jason Rainbow, 31 May 2017

  Last edited by:  Jason Rainbow (Global Admin, Global Mod, Asgardian)  on Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 17:54 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Providing English Translation

Can 11, 01 / May 31, 17 18:05 UTC

Bonjour à tous les Asgardiens,

Je viens de relire la constitution proposée, en français. Elle me paraît tout à fait juste et respectueuse des droits des citoyens. De plus elle est très précise, il y a beaucoup de choses à retenir. J'apprécie vraiment les articles sur  les libertés individuelles, une nation qui a pour valeur la paix, la protection de la terre et de l'humanité, et surtout l'idée d'avancer , à tous les niveaux et dans tous les domaines, que ce soit scientifique, artistique ou autre. Et ceci, tous ensemble; Tous ensemble, évoluer et s'améliorer, pour laisser aux générations futures, un monde meilleur.

Bonne fin de journée,

Sincerly, Carina

I just reread the proposed constitution in French. It seems entirely fair and respectful of the rights of citizens. Moreover it is very accurate, there are many things to remember. I really enjoy the articles on individual freedoms, a nation that has the value of peace, protection of the earth and of humanity, especially the idea of progress at all levels and in all fields, be it scientific, artistic or otherwise. And this all together; Together, evolve and improve, to leave future generations a better world.

Good evening,

Sincerly, Carina

Admin Edit: Translation provided by Google.  Jason Rainbow 31 May 2017

  Last edited by:  Jason Rainbow (Global Admin, Global Mod, Asgardian)  on Can 12, 01 / Jun 1, 17 01:48 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Providing English Translation