May 30, 17 / Can 10, 01 23:07 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

Hello Asgardians.

I share what seems to be overwhelming dissatisfaction with this draft. It looks silly, almost like it is from sort of second rate children's science fiction book, and I'm afraid that if the referendum is not postponed there might not be enough time to fix it.

Fellow Asgardians seem to have already pointed out all of the problems with it, so I would like to suggest some possible solutions. Specifically for the issue of disbanding the parliament and removal of the HoS from office. For instance, the HoS can propose the disbandment of the parliament. He could suspend it for a short period of time, several weeks to a month. At the end of that period a referendum is held. At that referendum one of two things happens: either the parliament is disbanded, or the HoS is removed from office. The same thing happens if the parliament proposes that the head of state is removed from his position: a referendum is held in which of of two things happens: either the HoS is removed or the parliament is disbanded. 

For these referendums a 60% majority is needed. If there is no 60% majority for either of the options (HoS goes or parliament is disbanded), new elections are automatically called for and held as soon as possible, for both parliament and HoS. 

If you are wondering why I think this system is probably good, the answer is because I think there should be a political cost and risk that would prevent political machinations and power struggles, as well as giving the citizens the final word in important matters like this. This is also me thinking out loud and throwing ideas here for brainstorming. This might be a good or terrible idea. You decide.

I would like to add one more thing—please calm down with the gender neutral stuff. I have nothing against people's rights, but the whole right vs left, liberal vs conservative, extreme ideologies and the clash between these two polar opposites is not a good template for uniting humanity. Asgarida should be a nation of common sense, pragmatical thinking, freedom of thought and expression, not of thought police and hysterical paranoia over pronouns. Personally I think a good solution for the gender pronoun issue is not a gender neutral one, but using both. So for instance everywhere where we would have a “he” we would instead have “he or she.” 

My two cents. 

  Last edited by:  Aleksandar Neshkovski (Asgardian)  on May 30, 17 / Can 10, 01 23:09 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 01:51 UTC

After acepting the Asgardian constitution i would be an asgardian citizen?

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 02:58 UTC

@96yeyo "The Members of Parliament should be elected with 18 years, not 50."

I'll try again to convey the thesis of the redundancy of the age limit.

Advancing in Parliament, you will have to present and defend your program, and possibly to participate in the debate. 

If you are 10 years old, you are not can to do it. If the 18 - may be able. If 50 is too, most likely, will be able, though not necessarily, people are different, some to old age are not getting smarter (I hope that the citizens of Asgardia are not this case). Without this you can't be elected. 

But if you 10 years and you still have made and defended the program - so, you're a genius and you have the right to be elected.

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 07:25 UTC

Not being a professional lawyer, I want to note some points in part of the project related to justice (articles 37, 38, 40). Such close attention to the court and Prosecutor's office in the draft Constitution at all seems a little sinister – I would suggest all the "police" part to minimize and to bring in a separate legislation. Alarming theses about the interaction with law enforcement agencies of other States. Although the draft Constitution is literally forbidden prisons and other reprisals, under a certain interpretation it remains possible to give these functions “for outsourcing” – especially that there is at least one state, willingly pursuing and arresting people all over the planet, regardless of their nationality and location.

At the same time, to prevent possible abuse, I would like to supplement these sections with the following principles.

  • - Right and duty of citizens of Asgardia is the need for the possibility of a voluntary settlement of any conflict situations with the participation of citizens groups or public entities based on mutual interests without the involvement of formal law enforcement structures of Asgardia.

  • - The reasoned intervention of law-enforcement structures are possible only on the initiative of citizens or their groups, and the initiators take the responsibility for the possible consequences.

  • - Unreasonable and unwarranted involvement and interference of law enforcement agencies is unacceptable and constitutes an offence and a violation of fundamental rights and freedoms of citizens.

(This is not an idle thought. Only recently had to decide such a complex and unpleasant issue in respect of a close relative. The possibility of any action for false accusation of Asgardia should be excluded).

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 11:03 UTC

And some considerations on the socio-economic unit that is separate and not selected. 

Here never sounded (although several times I noticed), as is the named economic model and the society that we want to. "???-izm"?

But some things still indicated:

Article 17, 2. Asgardia is a state of social justice ...

Article 18, 6. The state seeks to minimize the inequality of social conditions and opportunities of the citizens of Asgardia, including due to the conditions of their country of physical residence.


I would like to add the following thoughts.

- One of the goals of Asgardia is the creation of the welfare state, providing optimal conditions for the citizens .

- One of the principles of organization of society is the reduction of inequality of citizens fore fundamentally insignificant level (about inequality and its impact on society I have previously provided a link https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/the-spirit-level ).

- Given the fact that complete economic equality is unattainable by non-coercive because of the natural differences between people, and given the significant heterogeneity of the initial state of the citizens of Asgardia at the time of its formation, the goal of socio-economic activities of the state is to ensure the principle of equality of living standards and opportunities for its citizens. (Here it is not so difficult as it seems. The idea is this: if in one village, the neighborhood is home to millionaire, billionaire and multi-billionaire, their standard of living and consumption vary so slightly that it is not always possible to determine who is who (unless they are the appropriate people). They are roughly the same transport, schools, hospitals, gyms, etc. with roughly the same cost of it. Differences arise in the potential. Someone can create their own projects to a greater or lesser scale, and someone joins while applicable). 

- Any discrimination of citizens in terms of socio-economic well-being and any property qualification not allowed.

- Citizens are guaranteed the right to equal access to the benefits and opportunities provided by Asgardia in its infrastructure, given current technical capabilities, and targeted their extension to the full realization of this right.

- A mechanism to ensure socio-economic equality of the citizens of Asgardia is non-confiscatory. The alignment of the socio-economic level is provided not at the expense of reduction of incomes of the most wealthy citizens, and by creating conditions for faster growth of the income of less affluent citizens. (This is an attempt to circumvent the rake, which with good intentions came the ancestors after the revolution of 1917).

- Confiscatory measures are permissible only in respect of income from activities that cause deliberate harm to other citizens of Asgardia and their groups, if such activity has not been previously prevented by the legal mechanisms of Asgardia. (Perhaps the paragraph redundant. This refers to pyramid schemes, speculation in goods and services, and other types of fraud, drug trafficking and other obviously harmful goods, etc.).

- In the general case, is unacceptable increase in or preservation of life standard of some people of Asgardia or groups at the expense of reducing the living standards of others.

Like this. I propose to clarify and supplement.

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 16:27 UTC

Конституция Асгардии должная включать Идею  универсального базового дохода (УБИ) – это стандартная база “зарплата” для каждого члена общества, которая может удовлетворить наши основные потребности  независимо от работы, которую мы делаем.  Штат Аляска, опыт создания  “постоянного  фонда” , который распределяет дивиденды каждому жителю, чтобы они могли пользоваться всеми богатствами, почерпнутые из государственных  природных ресурсов, все граждане  в равной степени. Мы, в Асгадрии, должны иметь общество, которое измеряет прогресс не только экономическими показателями, такими как ВВП. Мы должны применить идеи универсального основного дохода, чтобы у всех граждан Асгардии была стабильная материальная основа, чтобы создавать и пробовать новые идеи. Цукерберг пополнил список экспертов и Новаторов, которые считают поддержку базовых человеческих потребностей  приоритетной по отношению к экономическим показателям . Он присоединяется к  Элону Маску, Биллу Гейтсу, Энди Стерн, Тимофей Höttges. Пилотные программы УБИ показывают  сильные стороны и выгоды различных стратегий, и данные по Аляске  могут  подсказать, как такие программы могут выдержать испытание временем в Асгардии.

The Asgardia Constitution should include the Universal Basic Income Idea (UBI) - this is the standard "salary" basis for every member of society that can meet our basic needs regardless of the work that we do. The state of Alaska, the experience of creating a "permanent fund," which distributes dividends to each resident so that they can enjoy all the riches gleaned from state natural resources, all citizens equally. We in Asgadria should have a society that measures progress not only by economic indicators, such as GDP. We must apply the ideas of universal basic income so that all citizens of Asgardia have a stable material basis to create and try new ideas. Zuckerberg joined the list of experts and innovators, who consider supporting basic human needs as a priority in relation to economic indicators. He joins Elon Mask, Bill Gates, Andy Stern, Timothy Höttges. The UBI pilot programs show the strengths and benefits of different strategies, and the Alaska data can tell how such programs can stand the test of time in Asgardia.


Admin Edit: Translation provided by Google - Jason Rainbow, 31 May 2017

  Last edited by:  Jason Rainbow (Global Admin, Global Mod, Asgardian)  on May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 17:54 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Providing English Translation

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 21:21 UTC

For those interested, some good economic reasons justifying a universal basic income (UBI) are listed on
http://www.kurzweilai.net/letter-from-ray-supporting-universal-basic-income-as-step-in-world-progress

However, I think that it could be difficult to implement a UBI before Ascardia's economy is well established. 

May 31, 17 / Can 11, 01 23:25 UTC

@Thor

Hm, there is also "hse". Fit the "s" between the "h" and the "e". 

Jun 1, 17 / Can 12, 01 05:12 UTC

@skieswanne
True: we should see how both sounds, then choose the one which sounds better and is more recognizable. As I'm italian, I've quite no idea of their sound.
Did a quick try: GoogleTranslator refuses to speak "ehs" but tells "hse" not that bad.

Jun 1, 17 / Can 12, 01 21:07 UTC

As written, I cannot vote for this. I had hopes for something more welcoming and embracing but to set out to legislate morality is a bit much. As far as Monarchy? Balderdash.  Eagerly awaiting revisions and a final document, the vote is days away.

Jun 1, 17 / Can 12, 01 21:10 UTC

Here is a repost of my 25 January suggestions. None of which were taken into consideration.

My ideas, probably not comprehensive but somewhere to start from.

The following rights and responsibilities are vested in every Asgardian:

  1. Right to life - every Asgardian and every sentient being within the realms of Asgardia regardless of origin has the right to exist.
  2. Right of self determination - every Asgardian above the age of majority has the right to decide the context in which they will lead their lives, provided it does not infringe on any other right or obligation stated herein.
  3. Right and obligation of knowledge - every Asgardian has the right of and the duty to a comprehensive science-based education, necessary for the well being of Asgardian society. The government of Asgardia shall provide each citizen with the tools and facilities necessary to this end.
  4. Right to safety and protection - every Asgardian has the right to a safe and livable habitat necessary to all the other rights herein. The government of Asgardia shall provide each citizen with the means necessary to this end. The government of Asgardia shall provide for the common protection and defence of all citizens from any hostile or injurious act or threats both external and internal. The government of Asgardia shall ensure the adequate care of Asgardian citizens by foreign governments or entities, hostile or not.
  5. Right and obligation to the commons - every Asgardian has the rights to, and duty to protect, the commons, being necessary for the survival of Asgardia and Asgardians, and shall not be denied access to nor use of any element, gas, liquid, organic or inorganic material, shelter, or nutrition necessary to adhere to the right to life, nor shall Asgardia deny any Asgardian common ownership thereof.
  6. Right to governmental representation - every Asgardian above the age of majority shall have the right to be represented in the government of Asgardia, regardless of where in the universe they may reside. Every Asgardian shall have the right to peacefully petition the Asgardian government to redress grievances, individually or as a collective.
  7. Right to health care and euthanasia - The government of Asgardia shall ensure that the health of every Asgardian is maintained to a high standard necessary to the functioning of a healthy society. Health care services shall not be denied to any Asgardian for any reason. Any Asgardian citizen above the age of majority may, either directly or through a pre-authorized process, request euthanasia services for themselves. The government of Asgardia shall have the ability to provide this care through direct taxation.
  8. Right to presumption of innocence and representation by counsel - every Asgardian citizen shall, upon accusation of criminal acts, be presumed innocent until found guilty by a jury of no less than twelve of his Asgardian peers, the right to appeal conviction to a higher court or body shall not be infringed. The government of Asgardia shall ensure fair representation of the accused by competent counsel. No Asgardian shall be compelled to give testimony which might incriminate themselves.
  9. Right to privacy - every Asgardian citizen shall have the right to be free of interference or intrusion by government into their personal communications and data. The government shall not interfere or intrude into the personal living space of any citizen without sufficient evidence of the immediate need to maintain safety and life within Asgardia to cause a warrant to be issued by a competent court. The government of Asgardia shall not establish any court or legal body capable of issuing warrants or legal determinations that is not completely transparent and available to all Asgardians.
  10. Right of Equality - every Asgardian citizen shall be deemed to have and hold equal rights of and obligations to Asgardia, and shall uphold and defend these rights for all Asgardians, anywhere they may exist, nor may the government of Asgardia deny such. No Asgardian shall be relieved from these rights and obligations until such time as they voluntarily renounce Asgardian citizenship and forfeit all rights and obligations resulting therefrom.

Thoughts and criticism are welcome :)

Jun 1, 17 / Can 12, 01 23:52 UTC

@espheim(Asgardian) on 1 June 2017, 5:48 p.m.

Great article! However, it did not actually prove anything. It was simply a reference to an intelligent debate about religion. The more one understands about the world (and Universe), the less they need of faith about the old world...

As such, Asgardia should be a new direction where we have little requirement of faith and more necessity of evidence.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Jun 1, 17 / Can 12, 01 23:53 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 1, 17 / Can 12, 01 23:56 UTC

@randellaa(Asgardian) on 1 June 2017, 9:10 p.m.

While your bill of rights does have a valid place in the Laws of Asgardia, it doesn't need to be verbatim in the Constitution. I agree that certain critical and fundamental rights should be expressed in the Constitution, but much of this should be relegated to substantive law.

Jun 2, 17 / Can 13, 01 05:08 UTC

@ Lena De Winne - Please specify the period of voting on the Constitution is continued to June 18, or moved? Whether here before submitted an updated version of the project, taking into account all that was said on the forum, or it will put to a vote already? Left a little more than two weeks.

Jun 2, 17 / Can 13, 01 05:27 UTC

I agree with Randellaa!