Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 13:14 UTC
Re: Discussion of the Second draft Constitution ¶
@Phicksur my wife thought it would be funny to name her cat that
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 13:28 UTC
How is this a personal attack against anyone - If you run for government office you are open to critique and I am sorry but the only thing I can see with this is person attempting to manipulate the community for their own grandstanding.
I find it more than odd that you have launched into a personal attack against the only person here questioning the motives of this individual.
Why is that unless you are all part of some secret group somewhere and will somehow gain from his appointment to office.
Saying anything was against the common will of anyone is a laughable statement - and disgusting that you offer to speak for the will of 200 thousand people as a group of what 10 or 20? .
and because everything that you wanted to be included in the constitution was not included you demand that everything that has been done should be thrown away - This sound very much like a child having a tantrum as they did not get there own way.
Every post where a person comments that they do not agree with a single thing Lord Zyra has commented to come to this post or you petrv and elwe thor bully them into silence. if this is not manipulation I do not know what is.
And I have not commented as I have been confined to a small mobile and this site is not and never has worked well with mobile devices.
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 14:36 UTC
This is more disturbing to me as the official summary document stated that these people alone worked on the compilation:
Volunteer team: John Skieswanne - Canada,
Richie C. Bartlett, Jr. (aka LoreZyra) - Japan,
Nikhil Kumar Chaudhary - India,
Stephen De Rosa - Italy
How did you become a part of this and why are you not mentioned in the list?
Or this is the proof that you are part of some secret group of Lord Zyras and you are having access to official work documents.
I'm sorry can an admin please look into this! why is Petrv not included on the list of contributors if he did all this work??
I see proof of manipulation by your group right here if you are not officially part of the team that was developing this document.
So this document was handled by you and your secret rebel alliance and it was Lord zyra that you worked with?
and any person that looks at the majority of your 423 posts will see them putting the opinions of someone down and usually as a team with your little rebel army as you have been attempting to do with me right now.
@Rebekah Berg I know you were responsible for the oversight of this document can you please help me with these questions it is deeply disturbing to me that this document was controlled in some part by this little secret rebel army.
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 15:00 UTC
I have checked and no, petrv was not involved in the compilation teams in gathering the first and second round of community feedback on the constitution. Also, if he did contribute to the constitution with suggestions, he did not comment on the thread in which we asked all contributors to give permission for us to publish their names in the thank you list at the end of the document. If he had, and given permission, we would have verified with a search through the forums and Facebook to verify and would have included him in the list.
Head of Community Affairs
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 15:14 UTC
@petrv I didn't check all of your messages. I checked the thread that I listed in my response asking for contributors of suggestions to the constitution to post up their permission for us to list their name in the constitution. I checked the thread to see if you had commented on it and I did not find it. I also stated the process that would have taken place that if you had commented your permission in it for us to publish your contributions.
I hope that clears it up!
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 15:19 UTC
OK many thanks Rebekah for confirming my fear that if Petrv was involved it was behind closed doors or he is just trying to support his boss in this post.
As I have said Petrv I was overseas for the last 8 months and confined to a small screen when reading the forum, and unable to create an account. I am sorry that I was not present earlier to be able to question the motives here.
I'm sorry I decline to accept this form of distraction - My points here are not trolling as you have called them, I feel that they are very on point as I am trying to discover the motives of the most outspoken advocate against everything that has been established.
I am allowed to question the motives of a candidate involved in the leadership elections of this, or am I mistaken and that is something the rebel army does not allow. I am questioning the motives behind the document not the document. something that any political leader must be prepared to face.
but as you and your army have clarified this is not allowed unless in places where you determine it to be - this is called pear pressure as you do it in a group and is a form of bullying.
thank you for proving my point.
So back to the original question that I asked of lordZyra if you please before I felt the need to defend myself (which took this topic off track) from the Rebel army.
Apologies to everyone if I am incorrect for asking these questions but I feel we should all be getting answers from a future trendsetter who is so outspoken such as is demanded from our president at the moment and look at how many of those questions are actually getting answered
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 15:51 UTC
@Buck Rogers(Asgardian) on 19 June 2017, 1:12 p.m.
You see this is very funny that you would ask me if I'm interested in democratic technocracy as you again just confirmed for me that you had been working on your version since before the release of the actual draft.
again public material but you seemed to have been showing a great interest in the subject as early as May, long before the constitution of asgardia was release.
You are correct, again! There is nothing nefarious going on here. I am not trying to hide anything here. I don’t know how long you have been silently watching, but prior to this official forum, Asgardia’s community inputs were gathered via FaceBook. The first calls for community input on the form of government, currency, ministries, etc. were back in December 2016. So, yes. I have, indeed, been thinking about how to construct a Constitution for a short while. I’m not the only one to contribute to this process. I’m not sure if you are aware, but the below is a quick, abbreviated timeline for your reference:
(Using Georgian Calendar:)
As you have confirmed (in a separate post), I have indeed been a part of the (volunteer) teams that compiled community inputs. I'm very keen to see the concerns you implied you have about the current published Constitution. Would you be interested in sharing that? Perhaps from that input, we can create a petition or together present them in Parliament?
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 15:57 UTC
actually petrv I did not ask if you had contributed in the post I asked Rebekah if you had taken part in the compilation as you stated this
unlike you as many of us cooperated with @Lore Zyra during those days and nights while compiling tens and maybe more proposals into one final document, officially submited for review of "professional lawyers team"
So you told us that you worked on the compilation in an unofficial capacity and behind closed doors with LordZyra.
I have read the comments that you have made in those discussion threads and know that you took part in them. I was asking your involvement in the creation of the summary as your name is not on the list of creators. So you have freely admitted that LordZyra had a secret group creating parts of his summary contributions.
How much faith can we put into this constitution now - is it little wonder when this is admitted that officials did not accept 100% of you secret contributions.
And now you are attempting to turn everyone against the constitution. Sounds like your secret suggestion wasn't included to me and your just having a tantrum.
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:03 UTC
@petrv My apologies if you did not understand my first statement and I was more than happy to clarify for your personal understanding. However, I believe this misunderstanding on the point would have been avoided if you had commented on the thread during the time it was open that you did not wish for your name to be listed on the Constitution on the thread that was posted (and that I had linked in my original response). We would have known that you had put in suggestions but did not want to be listed. This would have backed up your claims immediately that you had indeed put forth suggestions with the rest of the community. Then it would be a matter of searching through the suggestions either in the forum or in the compilation document to see what you had contributed.
Perhaps it would be helpful if you did just that? You can find the link to the compilation documents here:
First suggestion compilation document working thread:
Second suggestion compilation document working thread:
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:05 UTC
@Buck RogersWell, it seems I gave too much information in my response. My apologies for being a little to thorough!
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:12 UTC
Welp! This thread is done.
After all, the 'second draft' of the Constitution is already in place. Not everyone agreed to it, but all those who did are now L3 citizens compared to we L2 citizens (which, again, seems to ignore the Constitutions statements that all citizens are equal). It isn't as if anyone has actually been following any of their own rules anyway, neither staff nor citizens.
For those who are interested in bickering, bantering, belittling and basically bitching, I am sure you can find other threads with titles more appropriate to your activities. This thread would be best to put a fork in it 'cause it's done.
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:15 UTC
So LordZyra you are saying that you started looking into the subject as far back as December....
That there is nothing nefarious going on (nice word by the way)
yet your supporter says he worked with you in secret on the compilation
I did miss that you were part of both summary teams - does this mean that this secret group of yours has been involved in the community summaries for that long?
but there is nothing nefarious going on....
and that you were developing your own version of the constitution as far back as December in facebook groups. How in the name of god (sorry) are able to claim that you were a good impartial candidate to be involved in the compilation process.
how are you able to nominate yourself as a candidate to fight as
CHAMPION OF THE COMMON CITIZEN & JUSTICE??
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:18 UTC
why is it that you are all unable to defend the accusations that your purpose of this post is nothing more than your bad feelings that your secret groups suggestions were not included?
why is it so important that any discussion on this be taken to a different place??
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:20 UTC
@Buck Rogers(Asgardian) on 19 June 2017, 3:57 p.m.
So you told us that you worked on the compilation in an unofficial capacity and behind closed doors with LordZyra.
As I mentioned before, I did work directly with the community in collecting their input on the documents. As a candidate, I have no problem with you confirming my statement that I was a part of the compilation team. However, as you have posted the private names of all team members in a public forum without their permission... I would respectfully request that you withdraw the other members names from your post.
There is no "army" behind me here. I'm sure I have gathered some fans that strongly support my positions. This is what happens when like-minds find each other. As you can find for yourself, I have expressed my thoughts often on this forum and others have replied on this forum. Again, none of this is "behind closed doors" as you are claiming.
Have you considered my previous request to share your concerns about the Official Constitution published on June 13, 2017?
Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 16:40 UTC
About me, I can only say I contributed with Forum's "suggestions" before the very first Constitutional draft have been published (threads into general English and into italian chapter's side of the forum), I commented the first Constitutional draft after 18 May, helping @LoreZyra a little with amendments (1 night, not his 2-3) directly into github (which is public, and not "behind" any door, so verifiable, line by line), further commented the second Constitutional draft which has been put on vote (again, threads into main English and into italian's chapter forum sections), confronting my thoughts with far more expert people like @LoreZyra, @Skieswanne, @Bigred, @Petrv, @Phicksur and many others.
Only to say I didn't sit back turning my fingers, nonetheless I didn't ask for public thanks in the appropriate document: just did what I did as I felt right doing it and helping the ones who was doing it. I absolutely know that most of my posts may be perceived as "annoying", but things which (may be) wrong needs to be pointed out: doing that I never offended anyone, just asked clarity and transparency, keeping my responsability for my words exactly the same as I asked other to do with their ones.
We've not been really listened that much, nearly nothing, but I'm not feeling it as "a (my) problem": my duty was "to say" not "to be listened".
If someone wishes to do more than I did (which is not that hard, I'm sure) I welcome him/her very much, as I think Asgardia needs his/her efforts very much.