May 23, 17 / Can 03, 01 19:51 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

@LoreZyra I read your work on Asgardia.Constitution.Proposal on GitHub and I find it really solid.

May 23, 17 / Can 03, 01 21:28 UTC

Вы просили обсудить проект Конституции Asgardia.

Мы охотно делимся своими размышления по вопросам имеющим отношения к Asgardia и

предложенный проект текст Конституция.


Исходя из положения статьи 2. (проект конституции Asgardia / пКА / здесь и далее по тексту) статус Асгардии определяется, как первое космическое свободное, унитарный, правовой, социальный, надэтнический, надконфессиональный, нравственный, справедливый, мирное, основанное в своем единстве на равенстве достоинства каждый человек, устремленный в будущем и бесконечное пространство Вселенной государство - Конституционная Монархия.

Остаётся не ясным вопрос связанный с правовыми аспектами касающимися: войны в космосе и космических баталий.

Как нам представляется прояснение этих немало важных вопросов, которые по мере освоения ближнего и дальнего космоса, в том числе и в военных целях заставляет нас задуматься о возникающими аспектами военной проблематики перед космонавтами и астронавтами и космическими агентствами планеты Земля.

До принятия текста конституции предлагается взглянуть на следующие важные вопросы в области космического права Asgardia.

Когда можно, а когда нельзя:

Атаковать гражданские спутники, которые частично могут использоваться в военных целях?

Применять лазерное оружие?

Можно ли считать преступлением редактирование спутниковых снимков, чтобы представить гражданские объекты на земле военными и нанести по ним удар?

Насколько применимы к военным астронавтам законы, действующие на Земле?

Как применять к пленным, захваченным в космосе положения Женевской конвенции если она регулирует обращение с военнопленными на Земле, но не в космосе?

Кто и какую несёт ответственность за мусор на околоземной орбите, возникающий в результате военных действий в космосе?


Не смотря на поставленные вопросы конституция Asgardia не даёт ответов на них. Мы считаем если не КА, то должны быть созданы документы проливающие свет на милитаризацию и освоения космоса. До сегодняшнего дня международное космическое право таких документов не имеет. Апелляция к SDI (стратегическая оборонная инициатива) объявленная Рональдом Рейганом лишь подтверждает амбициозность планов сверхдержавы, хотя и оставшуюся на бумагу, по милитаризации космоса.

Очевидно, что дело лишь в сроках и решениях политиков когда будет размещена на спутниках лазерных и другое оружие. И Asgardia должна быть готова. Ст. 4 Высшие ценности Asgardia нам прямо указывает, что мы осуществлять защиту планеты Земля и всего человечества от угроз из Космоса.

Нам представляется что Asgardia должна поднять и решить вопрос о милитаризации космоса на Генеральной ассамблее ООН. Кото как Asgardia должна защищать космос от гонки вооружений в нём? Или мир уже прекратил нуждается в предотвращении угроз, в том числе и из космического пространства?

Asgardia волнует не совершенство Законов регулирующей деятельности человечества в космосе. Все они были приняты во время холодной войны и имели отношение к освоению мирного космического пространства умалчивая аспекты милитаризации космоса. Их нет ни в договоре о принципах деятельности государств по исследованию и использованию космического пространства, включая Луну и другие небесные тела (1966), не в Соглашении о спасании космонавтов, возвращении космонавтов и возвращении объектов, запущенных в космическое пространство (1967).

Учёные и философы Asgardia считают, что есть необходимость в закреплении в тексте конституции положения относящиеся к ведению звездных войн в космическом пространстве. Причина заключается в том, никто не может сегодня помешать государствам использовать космос в военных целях. Сегодня не просто дать правовую оценку действий и степень вмешательства субъекта как со стороны планеты Земли, так и Asgardia, например в полете спутника на околоземной орбите, которую согласно канонам космического права можно трактовать как «вооруженное нападение. За которым может последовать право Asgardia и Землян использовать силу для самообороны субъекта.

Мы полагаем что участие международных юристов Asgardia в проекте MILAMOS позволит рассеять густой правовой туман в вопросах военного освоения и милитаризации космоса не смотря на предстоящие задачи. Asgardia нельзя забывать, что любые державы (государства) при ведении военных и боевых действий в космосе для достижения победы на земле используют доступный им космический арсенал, который после атаки (взрывов) создаст множества обломков, которые останутся на орбите. Ликвидация последних усилиями Asgardia при современном уровне технологий уборки космического мусора может занять десятилетия и столетия?

Мы надеемся, что технические специалисты и юридический корпус Asgardia вместе с юристами планеты Земля способны прописать правила поведения космических держав. Мы уверены, что применение обновлённых норм международного космического права способно радикально изменить быстро меняющуюся природу вооруженных конфликтов государств на планете Земля, включая космическое пространство.

Таково было наше видение на конституционные пробелы.

Спасибо!


  Last edited by:  Alex Kulay (Asgardian)  on May 23, 17 / Can 03, 01 21:31 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

May 23, 17 / Can 03, 01 21:48 UTC

@Lore Zyra


I'm also reading your proposal document and I am awaiting your take on Chapter 8.


So far everything I'm reading sounds satisfying.

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 01:41 UTC

  HoS/  PoA should be a president position, no more than 3 terms of 5-6 yrs  each. But at the end of each term there needs to be a primary,hate to  say it no matter what there's going to be political party's.to let the  President/ Monarch pass on title is very  wrong and will most diffidently lead to corruption  Let the Hos /PoA  have a cabinet made up of the heads of the different executive  branches  of government,these branch can be nominated by the President/ Monarch  but have to be vetted by Parliament/ Congress and approved by same for  the post they were nominated for ,plus these are the only people the  PoA/HoS can fire if they aren't doing the work of the people.  As far as   members of Parliament/ congress they should be elected by Asgardians  in each country where we have a presence.Just to say that  Parliament/Congress will have 150 members is a bit wrong .This leaves  the door open for corruption . Lastly Only the citizens of Asgardia have  the right to de-solve Parliament/Congress by voting. To let the HoS/PoA  do this is maddness

  Another thought I do realize that some of the countrys we have a presence in may only  have one citizen member .In that case they will represent them self's  while at the same time promoting Asgardia to encourage more people to  become citizens           Ricky Sickles

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 02:13 UTC

@lorezyra,

excellent work! I find your re-write to be wholly acceptable and I would vote for it. solid base to build the nation on.

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 02:57 UTC

I had no idea how bad it is. Better consider it expedient to postpone the vote (at least a year), than to be so crude document.


Then I will present objections to the thesis.

Citizenship Asgardia can't be fixed and the more innate is again inadequate reproduction of the Earth's antiquity. I suggest the following.

Citizenship Asgardia is deliberate and dynamic. Citizenship was granted to any person who has a confirmed sustained personal motivation for participation in large-scale space projects. Citizenship has no lower age limit (even younger students are able to put forward some very interesting ideas and to take part in the solution of quite complex scientific - technical problems – for example, using applications such as BOINC), but on the basis of informed personal statement. Automatic assignment of citizenship to children at the age of irresponsible, even if their parents are citizens, is unacceptable, as they automatically label it a religion, because it is not a conscious choice.

Citizenship Asgardia is dynamic. The citizen accepts the obligation to uphold the laws and to divide declared values of Asgardia to the extent that they do not contradict his worldview and do not conflict with the social system of his primary residence. A citizen has the right to an unlimited number of times to suspend the citizenship (for example, in the event of a conflict of interest) and to appeal for its renewal. Resumption of citizenship automatically, except in cases where previous activities of the citizen the relevant authorities of Asgardia recognized as destructive (for example, he helped a terrorist organization). In the latter case, citizenship may be forcibly suspended by decision of the authorities of Asgardia. But basic necessary and sufficient condition for citizenship Asgardia is the person's self-identification as such (otherwise it sect).

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 03:15 UTC

Some general remarks.

A number of scientific schools (in particular, the Soviet school by Kurdyumov), what studied the development of complex nonequilibrium systems, proposed a new approach to the description of the future. Even a simple flame propagation in the medium is around 10^15 (million billion!) possible attractors, each of which is strictly described. In these circumstances, predicting the future makes no sense. The desired future you must choose from possible (not prohibited), and then restore the path leading to it.

In this regard, I always thought that the main function of Science Fiction – the creation of utopias, i.e. the description of the desired states of society and its scientific and technical base, and then a description of the ways leading to it. At present, unfortunately, this function fails completely, really interesting works can be counted on the fingers.

In my understanding, the writing of the Constitution of Asgardia is primarily the creation of compelling, actionable and inspiring utopia. I now this utopia do not see absolutely. The fundamentals are well recognizable model of the existing states of the Earth, some of which are already largely dysfunctional, and others relatively safe as long as not over oil on the continental shelf of the North sea. Maybe you need a broad discussion in the Science Fiction aspect (the definition of a set of desired States, the "ideal final result" by Altshuller's TRIZ), and not formal futurological approach of extrapolating from the achieved.



May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 03:44 UTC

I like most of the constitution, most of the points make a lot of sense to the dream that Igor put out back in october. I would like a bit more clarification on what some things mean. One issue that has been discussed a lot is the whole monarchy business and the taxes/levies. Could we get a separate document describing the reasoning behind such things? 

Why do we have to be classified by old political nomenclatures like republics and monarchies, why cant we be something new?

What taxes and levies?

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 03:44 UTC

I think wrong in principle at this stage any mention of orbital weapon platforms and the more purposeful their possible use against any man-made objects. 

Now it sounds like this: Asgardia offers the states of the Earth (probably for a small fee) effective protection against space threats. Read between the lines: for those who are not willing to pay the fee, or will create problems, Asgardia able to create a cosmic threat. It is a model of the Laputa island  from the novel of Jonathan Swift. (Those who caught the worst of the Soviet and Russian history at the turn of XX-XXI centuries, understand the meaning of the euphemism "крыша" ("roof")). 

Obviously, no state with at least some scientific and technical potential, will not tolerate such a situation. In the first place it will not allow the USA with their claims to world hegemony (especially with the fact that decisions in Asgardia, including the use of technical means, intended to be taken in a democratic way, and most of its supporters are citizens of China). 

The project will be either thwarted or brought under tight control (up to loss of function) leading powers. I propose to exclude from the Constitution any militaristic allusions.

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 04:42 UTC

The Constitution mentions that citizens will have access to "mechanisms for public monitoring" of the electronic voting. What is/are the procedure/s to monitor the election?

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 05:01 UTC

Hello Fellow Asgardians  from the Moraine Ohio sector These are my Thoughts on  Checks and Balances ,They come in the form of vetting the HoS/PoA Picks and then Parliament/ Congress  doing the placements if they pass, plus not allowing the HoS/PoA from dissolving the Parliament/Congress. Parliament/ Congress makes the laws the HoS/ PoA ether has to pass it or veto it. If vetoed it should back and be re worked or the Parliament/Congress has 30 days to get a 2/3s vote to over turn the veto and pass the law after which the HoS/ PoA has to live with the decision or vice-a-verse. As far as departments, there's too many. They need to be paired down/ There should be three branches of government  Executive, Legislature,Justice The Asgardian Supreme Court is a stand alone just like in the states Judges are appointed by the HoS/ PoA ,but still have to be vetted by the Legislature . and the Court is only there to see that the government is following the laws and Constitution not making laws .  The departments under the  Executive HoS/ PoA should only be Defense,State department ,Intel ,Trade ,and  Treasury ( no national bank) Justice takes care of Civil courts and citizen safety ( not to include fire safety) This can be an off shoot of defense. The Legislature is the purse strings of it all

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 05:46 UTC

LOREZYRA Hello Heres a little rewrite of your draft I did not read this before my earlier posts today.

I just went over the first parts will look over the others tommorrow  

This is just my take from an older point of view


  1. Right to Identity
    1. One may choose to have/not have a given Ideology or Philosophy.  
    2. One cannot have their identity taken, discriminated, or another forced upon them without consent.
    3. One may self-designate orientation of physical and mental preference.
  2. Right to Representation
    1. One is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and or by their peers . This also covers 2 and 3
    2. One has equal right before the law and entitled to council.
    3. One has equal right for peaceful petition.
  3. Right to Intelligence/Sentience
    1. One is equal regardless of origin, before the law, and is entitled to all rights of intelligence/sentience.combine 1 and 3 do some rewording ,They are both say in the same thing 
  4. Right to Community (This is the same as # 14)
    1. All are entitled to gather in safe environments.
    2. All are freely allowed to associate in family, network, or organization in any consensual manner.
    3. All are entitled to the luxury of entertainment for the purpose of individual, and communal, Cognition (sanity). 
  5. Right to Communication ( Just say Freedom Of Speech)
    1. All are equal in communication, conversation, and expression, adhering to ethical/moral obligations.
  6. Right to Travel and Transportation
    1. One has the right to travel for purposes of pleasure, business, or education. Don’t need to specify Opening line is good enough  
  7. Right to Individual Health
    1. One’s health is recognized as individualized and as such, all are entitled to a customized health (care), based upon Creditable Confirmation.
    2. One has the right to resources needed to sustain a full life. 
  8. Right to Equality ( That’s a no brainer and doesn’t have to be based on anything in a free nation)So drop line 1, And 2 doesn’t matter
    1. All are equal regardless of origin based upon a meritocracy.
    2. All are equally entitled to Honors, Decorations, and Medals when requirements for said items have been meet. 
  9. Right to Seek work
    1. All are equal to seek skills in an area of proficiency. 
    2. One is free to practice any profession, or to carry on any occupation, trade, or business, within one’s proficiency.Should read All Asgardians have the Right to Earn a Living. Drop Lines 1 and 2 Not needed 
  10. Right to Education
    1. All are entitled to seek and obtain the highest level of education one is able to obtain.
  11. Right to Existence 11 thru 14 are all the same delete 11-13 make 14 #11 and go from there 
    1. One has the right to life (with the exception of one who has forfeited such life by the law – if legalized).
    2. One has the right to die based upon the quality of life one has. This is a little slippery when placed next #7
    3. One has the right to transcend one’s physical or mental capabilities through natural or artificial means.
  12. Right to Bodily Sanction
    1. One has the right to physical safety.  One cannot be arbitrarily or unjustly altered, augmented, harmed, maimed, or otherwise pain inflicted, without the permission of the sentient in question. (Consumption of Smoking, Alcohol, GMO other legal items.)
  13. Right to Cognitive Consistency
    1. All have the right to maintain their Cognitive Structures.  Forcible rewriting, editing, planting of false memories can destroy a person-hood.
  14. Right to Life Liberty and Pursuite of Happiness  ( Its common sense about children and teens)( Drop Line ) Its all in the statement
    1. All have control of their own life, within the law, and cannot be forcibly owned, detained, or otherwise coerced; with the exception of one not yet of legal age, or placed under guardianship.
  15. Right to Offspring
    1. One cannot be arbitrarily denied the right of procreation.  Population control policies must be fair for the environment the populace is contained, e.g. space station versus planetary surface. Getting a little main land China Here
    2. One has the right to choose the partner of parenting. 
  16. Right to Prosperity
    1. All are entitled to seek advancement and prosperity for themselves, while performing within the ethical, social, and legal limits. Drop this part It’s a given that is for them self’s 
    2. One is entitled to property, (within the means of the society, and to the protection of said property, within the law .Drop this part
  17. Right to Critique This fall under freedom of speech # 17 not needed it over kill 
    1. All are allowed to express themselves in any reasonable manner without censure, attack, or otherwise inhibition. 
    2. All are allowed to express through, but are not limited to, public speaking, published opinions, religious expression, bodily form, and chosen garments.













May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 05:47 UTC

Bill of Responsibilities If you have to make common sense an Obligation Then the governing body doesn’t think there citizens are very intelligent  

  1. The Obligation of Respect to Oneself, Others, Asgardian Law and Assets.
    1. With respect to the Bill of Rights. 
  2. The Obligation of Rationalism.
    1. Use of proven methods for discussion and decision-making.
  3. The Obligation to be free from Corruption.

  4. The Obligation to participate in the development of Asgardia
    1. Participate in voting, cleaning, volunteering, etc.
  5. The Obligation to keep the secretsof your post in Asgardia
    1. Keep one’s council to maintain Respect and Integrity.
  6. The Obligation to be peaceful
    1. Peaceful action leads to respect; there are others authorized to assist you, if deemed necessary.
  7. The Obligation to perform peaceful actions in the name of Asgardia
    1. Asgardian’s represent the Nation, speak and act well.
  8. The Obligation to protect Asgardiaand its citizens
    1. Be willing to take action for others, for the benefit of the People.
  9. The Obligation to represent oneself with proper etiquette.
    1. Confirmed Creditability for yourself and others.

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 06:56 UTC

I oppose monarchical forms of organization for a number of reasons. 

Technically that's a violation of the basic principles of organization of complex systems – Ashby's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_(cybernetics)), since no leader can be highly competent in many issues (a disease not only of monarchies, but any quasimonarchies – strong presidential republic, etc.). However, in the stated activities of Asgardia, by definition, inevitable situation when strong leadership is needed.

I propose to consider the following model of dynamic leadership.

In addition to Ministries, Asgardia are related by the relevant Councils (Soviets) with the elected Leaders (formed in a first approximation according to the principles of competence and meritocracy). The difference is that the Ministry – appointed structures, carrying out routine activities, the Executive structures of the Councils, and the Councils – elected and strategic. In any the moment in the current situation, operational management (leadership) activity of Asgardia belongs to the Leader of the relevant Council, with the participation of members of the Council, but only within the framework of its competence, and limited time interval. He is the current Operator of Asgardia. 

So, in the event of fast threats such as collision with an asteroid body almost all the power to take the necessary measures sent the Leader of the Security Council. He has the authority to use all technical resources – but, for example, not impact on social or cultural sphere. After target solutions - eliminate the threat – he sends the credentials of the Operator to the Leader of another Council like the Council of Foreign Relations or the Council of Science. 

The model assumes action of Operators in the region of their maximum competence and reduce the likelihood of seizing power. I propose to develop the theme.

  Last edited by:  Dmitry Novoseltsev (Asgardian)  on May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 06:58 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 13:43 UTC

Una propuesta para el artículo 32. 

Articulo 32. Jefe de La Nación de Asgardia 

1. El Jefe de La Nación es el más alto funcionario de Asgardia, el garante de la Constitución, que establece las principales direcciones de la política interior y exterior y representa al Estado en el país y en el extranjero. 

2. El primer Jefe de la Nación elegido el 20/01/17 es Igor Ashurbeyli.  

3. El Jefe de la Nación tiene un mandato único de 10 años.

4. El Jefe de la Nación es elegido mediante elección directa de los ciudadanos.

5. El segundo Jefe de La Nación puede ser cualquier ciudadano asgardiano de más de 40 años que haya tenido la ciudadanía espacial durante al menos cinco años antes de ser nombrado, que tenga la salud física y mental para desempeñar las funciones de Jefe de Estado. 

6. En caso de fallecimiento, renuncia, incapacidad permanente o declaración de fallecimiento del Jefe de Estado, así como en las circunstancias previstas por la ley cuando el Jefe de La Nación no pueda desempeñar sus funciones, éstas pasarán temporalmente al Presidente del Parlamento hasta que las razones que impidieron al Jefe de Estado cumplir el desempeño de estas funciones, dejarán de estar en vigor o hasta la toma de posesión del nuevo jefe de La Nación.

7. El procedimiento para elegir a los Jefes de La Nación y organizar sus actividades está establecido por la ley y la Constitución.

8. El Parlamento podrá retirar al Jefe de La Nación de su cargo de conformidad con el procedimiento establecido por la ley en caso de: 

a. incapacidad permanente para desempeñar sus funciones por motivos de salud;

 b. el Fiscal General acuse al Jefe de La Nación de traición u otro delito grave, con tal acusación confirmada por una conclusión del Tribunal Real; 

c. el Fiscal General o la Sala de Valores Supremos acuse al Jefe de La Nación de una grave violación de la Constitución de Asgardia, con tal acusación confirmada por una conclusión de la Corte Real. 

9. El Jefe de La Nación goza de inmunidad y se le otorga una garantía de por vida de seguridad personal y la seguridad de su propiedad después de dejar el cargo. 

10. El Jefe de La Nación:

 a. nombra y elimina al Presidente de la Oficina Nacional de Auditoría, al Presidente del Consejo Supremo de la Nación y a los embajadores asgardianos extraordinarios y plenipotenciarios de las naciones de la Tierra;

 b. Propone y nombra al candidato a Presidente de Gobierno.

c. convoca a las elecciones de los miembros del Parlamento de conformidad con la ley de Asgardia; 

d. negocia y firma tratados internacionales, instrumentos de ratificación, acepta cartas credenciales y destituye a los representantes diplomáticos; 

e. propone proyectos de ley al Parlamento, firma leyes adoptadas por el Parlamento y las devuelve sin firma con derecho a promulgarlas, y tiene derecho a vetar leyes adoptadas por el Parlamento; 

f. otorga premios estatales y otorga rangos militares y títulos honoríficos; 

g. otorga clemencia;

 h. nombra al personal de la Administración del Jefe de Estado, órgano que apoya la labor del Jefe de Estado; 

i. crea órganos de discusión y asesoramiento para apoyarlo en la realización de sus deberes; 

j. desempeña otras funciones estipuladas por la Constitución y la ley de Asgardia. 

 11. En caso de agresión contra Asgardia por parte de las naciones de la Tierra o amenazas directas de tal agresión, el Jefe de La Nación declara un estado de emergencia de conformidad con la ley de Asgardia, la cual debe ser confirmada posteriormente por el Parlamento. 

12. El Jefe de La Nación emite decretos que son obligatorios para los ciudadanos asgardianos. Los decretos del Jefe de La Nación no deben contrarrestar la Constitución y las leyes de Asgardia.

  Last edited by:  Juan Rodriguez (Asgardian)  on May 24, 17 / Can 04, 01 13:54 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time